| Mar 10 @ 9:36 PM |
Succession: Is it possible ?
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onoudn
Posts: 6,354
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I'm seeing more and more disgruntled Americans online, on the news, everywhere. While they seem to be a minority, there passion can't be ignored. It's to the point that I've begun to wonder how far it's going to go. I did a little research, very little really. But from what I've read succession from the United States has been ruled to be unconstitutional. Yet some may as well come out and say that's what they want given the level of discontent they spew. But, that would be treason, right ? Pardon my patriotism, but part of me wishes that something like a succession would happen, just to shut those, who clearly hate Americans--real Americans, up. But mostly I wish that the shock jocks, and other agitators, would stop fanning the fires of discontent and begin advocate working together as one nation.
But I show my own ignorance on this subject, and I'm not ashamed to admit it.
What say you ?
By real Americans I mean those that understand that Obama was elected by popular vote, he didn't steal the Presidency, and no one was denied an opportunity to avail themselves of the right to cast their votes.
In politics, the withdrawal from a federation of states by one or more of its members, as in the secession of the Confederate states from the Union in the USA 1860, Singapore from the Federation of Malaysia 1965, and Croatia and Slovenia from the Yugoslav Federation 1991.
source
Secession occurs when persons in a country or state declare their independence from the ruling government. When a dissatisfied group secedes, it creates its own form of government in place of the former ruling government. Secessions are serious maneuvers that lead to, or arise from, military conflict.
One of the most famous unsuccessful secession movements was the case of the Southern states of the United States. Secession from the United States was declared in thirteen states, eleven of which joined together to form the Confederate States of America. The eleven states were Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Tennessee, Arkansas, Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and Florida. Note that these are not listed by order of secession; South Carolina was the first state to secede from the Union, on December 20, 1860; Tennessee was the last, and seceded on June 8, 1861. In addition, in Missouri and Kentucky secession was declared by its supporters but did not become effective, and was opposed by pro-Union state governments. This secession movement brought about the American Civil War. The position of the Union was that the Confederacy was not a sovereign nation, but that a rebellion had been initiated by individuals. Historian Bruce Catton described President Abraham Lincoln's April 15, 1861 proclamation after the attack on Fort Sumter which
defined the Union's position on the hostilities:
source
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| Mar 10 @ 9:44 PM |
Succession: Is it possible ? |
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SweetNapaGuy
Posts: 8,496
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From the USA? Not possible. Not going to happen. There has already been a precedent set to keep the country together through force of arms.
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| Mar 10 @ 9:53 PM |
Succession: Is it possible ?
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alivenwell351
Posts: 3,023
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I mean those that understand that Obama was elected by popular vote
Actually he was elected by a majority of the Electoral College....but I suppose to those blinded by the light that's splitting hairs...
But since popular vote was brought up, you bamasiah worshipers should keep in mind that nearly 48% of those who voted chose NOT to vote for the Obamanation...
He may be the prez, but no one is under any obligation to be happy about it...In fact it can be argued that given what we've seen from him so far, those of us who believe him to be a scam have every right...some would argue an obligation...to do whatever legally possible to limit this sweet talking fraud of a corrupt Chicago politician to only one term...
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| Mar 10 @ 10:13 PM |
Succession: Is it possible ? |
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SweetNapaGuy
Posts: 8,496
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Nope. No need to be happy about it. No more than those of us who suffered under eight years of mismanagement under Bush enjoyed being told "he's the president, if you can't respect him, at least respect the office."
And it was 46% McCain to 53% Obama, by the way.
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| Mar 10 @ 10:29 PM |
Succession: Is it possible ?
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alivenwell351
Posts: 3,023
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at least respect the office."
Hmmmmm....like the lefties respected the office the last 8 years???
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| Mar 10 @ 10:32 PM |
Succession: Is it possible ? |
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SweetNapaGuy
Posts: 8,496
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Don't want to be hypocritical now, do you? 
Regardless, the Dems control two out of three branches of government. They may be able to gain a majority in the third (looking forward to seeing Obama nominating SC justices and federal judges...), but at the least, they'll be able to put in lifetime defenders of the common man...
(And with the Republicans having done all the work to justify the Nuclear Option, the threat of filibuster is neutralized...)
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| Mar 10 @ 10:34 PM |
Succession: Is it possible ?
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Angel54214
Posts: 18,197
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~ THE DISGRUNTLED SUCCESSION MOVEMENT OF THE U.S. 2008 ELECTION ~
Leftists Call On United Nations To Monitor U.S. Election
Monday, 03 November 2008
A coalition of left-wing organizations petitioned the members of the Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC) of the United Nations on October 30 for international election monitors for the November 4 U.S. presidential election.
"The international community came to the aid of past American movements for civil rights, free speech, and independence," said Ben Manski, executive director of Liberty Tree Foundation for the Democratic Revolution, one of the four groups appealing for UN intervention. "We are asking for the same support today. U.S. elections remain undemocratic and rife with voting rights violations, and international election observers are needed."
The other representatives issuing the appeal are Medea Benjamin of Global Exchange, Kevin Zeese of True Vote, Grace Ross of www.econhumanrights.org, and Dr. Margaret Flowers and Diane Wittner of www.ChesapeakeCitizens.org. The umbrella operation coordinating the appeal calls itself No More Stolen Elections and maintains the Internet website www.nomorestolenelections.org.
Medea Benjamin, the best known of the coalition leaders, is also a co-founder of Code Pink, the militant anti-war, anti-U.S., pro-communist women's group. Benjamin lived in communist Cuba for several years and is an adoring fan of Fidel Castro. She is also a Hugo Chavez groupie; photos of her hugging Hugo on her 2006 pilgrimage to Venezuela are available on the Internet. She and Code Pink co-founder Jodie Evans (one of Obama's leading "bundlers" of campaign contributions) also met with Iran's Mahmoud Ahmadinejad this year. Benjamin and Evans, who have been arrested many times for crashing political events, have both been speakers at anti-U.S. rallies sponsored by the hardcore Maoists of the Workers World Party (WWP) and International ANSWER (Act Now to Stop War ande End Racism).
No More Stolen Elections reports on its website that it "was initiated by" the Liberty Tree Foundation for the Democratic Revolution. Green Party activist Ben Manski runs both organizations. Kevin Zeese of True Vote was previously employed by the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws (NORML) and the Drug Policy Foundation, both heavily funded by George Soros. Zeese warns: "Problems with voting and registration of voters are being reported in many parts of the United States. We have had two questionable and problem-ridden presidential elections in 2000 and 2004. Americans are losing faith in their democracy and international observers are needed to provide an independent, official review of what is occurring."
In the run-up to the 2004 presidential election, 13 Democrat members of the U.S. House of Representatives signed a letter to UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan calling on him to send election observers to monitor polling places.
The letter to Secretary Annan was signed by Representatives Corinne Brown of Florida, Barbara Lee and Michael Honda of California, Julia Carson of Indiana, William Lacy Clay of Missouri, Elijah Cummings of Maryland, Danny Davis of Illinois, Raul Grijalva of Arizona, Eddie Bernice Johnson of Texas, and Carolyn Maloney, Jerrold Nadler, Edolphus Towns, and Joseph Crowley, all of New York. Annan rejected the appeal, explaining the government, not merely a group of elected legislators, must request the monitoring. The congressmen then asked President Bush's then-Secretary of State Colin Powell to make the request.
House Republicans rightly opposed the effort as UN interference in U.S. domestic affairs is an assault on our national sovereignty. So Secretary Powell went instead to the regional Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), setting a dangerous precedent. The OSCE sent election monitoring teams, the first such international monitors of a U.S. presidential election.
The current coalition of leftists appealing for international monitors, apparently, are taking a cue from George Jacques Danton, one of the many bloody-handed miscreants leading the French Revolution, who famously advised: "Audacity, more audacity and always audacity."
The audacity of the current appeal lies principally in the fact that many, if not most, of the groups and individuals in the coalition are heavily involved in the Obama campaign, and many are actually involved in the current voter fraud-scandal involving ACORN (Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now), the radical organization Obama once worked for, training activists. Maude Hurd, national president of ACORN, is a signatory to No More Stolen Elections' "call to action," which appears to be aimed at pre-setting the dials for nationwide demonstrations and riots, if Obama should lose.
^^^^ Succession: Is it possible ? ^^^^ |
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| Mar 10 @ 10:35 PM |
Succession: Is it possible ? |
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onoudn
Posts: 6,354
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wait a minute....are you saying that Obama didn't win the popular vote ?
At least he was not appointed to the Presidency by the Supreme Court. That's one of the first things that led to people disrespecting Bush, despite him holding the office. That and so many other things that indicated that he, himself, didn't have any respect for it.
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| Mar 10 @ 10:46 PM |
Succession: Is it possible ?
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alivenwell351
Posts: 3,023
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You know...I despise lil Bush and his chickenhawks...and if I was on the left side of the fence I'd be gloating too. But I'm not, and I believe that all that's happened is one pc of shit has been replaced with an even raunchier one. That's OK...enjoy the next 2 years...there's a backlash brewing already. The midterm elections might be interesting. See, a bunch of those who voted for the bamasiah are working folks struggling to make their mortgage payment..and somehow they still do. And they see NO reason why a bunch of clowns who got in over their heads should be bailed out, and all the bamasiah has for those who are hanging in there is fkn $13 more dollars a week.
Seems that just like the current repubs, the dems have nothing to offer the average working gal/guy either...
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| Mar 10 @ 10:50 PM |
Succession: Is it possible ? |
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Angel54214
Posts: 18,197
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Seems that just like the current repubs, the dems have nothing to offer the average working gal/guy either...
I tend to agree with you here since it's already been announced it will take years before any "change" to take effect to make a positive difference. The health care alone will take 10 years and millions need it now. 
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| Mar 10 @ 10:57 PM |
Succession: Is it possible ?
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SweetNapaGuy
Posts: 8,496
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I dislike both parties. I like planks from each of their platforms, but dislike their pandering to their extremists. I'd rather that a new third-party, one drawn from the moderate majority, be formed and take power.
However, I'm realistic enough to realize that the chances of that happening are about as likely as my marrying Martina McBride. So I've looked at the two parties, and decided that while I dislike them both, the Democrats are marginally better than the Republicans, at least for the majority of Americans. (And this is someone who was a California Republican up to halfway through Bush Sr's term. When the GOP went goose-stepping into the far-right fringe, I stood still. I didn't leave my party, my party left me...)
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| Mar 10 @ 10:59 PM |
Succession: Is it possible ? |
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capobeachguy
Posts: 4,737
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Is the title of this thread just another of onoudn's spelling blunders? I skipped over the thread for awhile thinking that it had something to do with the possibility that another socialist my succeed Obama. It turns out that folks are discussing secession.
While it's highly unlikely that states might secede, individuals who are fed up with governmental control will certainly do so.
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| Mar 10 @ 11:02 PM |
Succession: Is it possible ?
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SweetNapaGuy
Posts: 8,496
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More power to them, capo. I'll take odds on their chances of success, however.
They can always emigrate, of course. But most civilized countries are far more liberal than the USA. (People complain about our "liberals," but in most civilized countries, they'd be considered "moderate-to-conservative." Though to be fair, as far right as our "conservatives" are, they'd rate at best "conservative-to-strongly-conservative." OTHER countries also have Fascist parties...)
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| Mar 10 @ 11:08 PM |
Succession: Is it possible ? |
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capobeachguy
Posts: 4,737
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I'll take odds on their chances of success, however.
After 6½ years, I'm doing just fine. What do I win?
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| Mar 10 @ 11:10 PM |
Succession: Is it possible ?
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Jankia
Posts: 11,900
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We interrupt this thread to bring you this breaking news...
In the United States Barack Obama successfully won the Presidential election in November of 2008.He is now the 44th and current President of the United States.
The previous President of the United States George Bush is no longer our current President.
Attn! This just in.Hatefull Americans were allowed to participate in that election along with the real Americans and due to that hatred oddsmakers in Las Vegas have it at 52% on the hatefull Americans taking the real in the war of secession.
Check back soon,the odds on Napa marrying Martina McBride are not yet in.
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| Mar 10 @ 11:11 PM |
Succession: Is it possible ? |
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SweetNapaGuy
Posts: 8,496
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I said secede. As in "take a part of US soil and declare it NOT a part of the US."
Not emigrate.
Big difference.
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| Mar 10 @ 11:16 PM |
Succession: Is it possible ?
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capobeachguy
Posts: 4,737
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": to withdraw from an organization (as a religious communion or political party or federation)"
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| Mar 10 @ 11:36 PM |
Succession: Is it possible ? |
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SweetNapaGuy
Posts: 8,496
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In the context of this thread, we're talking about taking physical territory out of a country. They specifically mentioned three instances.
I don't think it'll be possible, anytime in the next hundred years or so, for the nation to break apart or even for a fragment to declare independence.
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| Mar 10 @ 11:41 PM |
Succession: Is it possible ?
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Laidback742
Posts: 4,679
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At least he was not appointed to the Presidency by the Supreme Court.
If I remember correctly, and I'm too tired to look it up, Gore and his team are the ones that pursued this to the Supreme Court, not Bush, so I don't get why people hated Bush for it.
And Martina McBride .... yeah, she could warm up my bed anytime ....
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| Mar 10 @ 11:45 PM |
Succession: Is it possible ? |
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Jankia
Posts: 11,900
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Better watch out for napa though laidback....he's a scrapper! 
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