| Mar 30 @ 5:26 PM |
Obama takes over gm and chrysler
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roythead
Posts: 92
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Well, It has happened. we have taken our bigget step towards becoming a socialist country.
And ford thinks they are ok because they didn't take the money. Iwould be willing to bet that they are regulated to oblivian. It is a sad day for america.
But at least now fiat can get their foot in the door(by order of Obama)
And to publicly state that dodge trucks suck(paraphrased), that is just a damn joke. I hope we survive all. The stock market went belly up again too. You'd thin he would take the hint.
Oh well just wana hear what others think.
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| Mar 30 @ 5:35 PM |
Obama takes over gm and chrysler |
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DiamondRain
Posts: 6,354
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Ah yeah... Obama dumps GM's CEO.
But not without paying him a $20 million dollar bonus first. 
What I have not heard anywhere... no one is talking about this.
GM, Ford and Chrysler all are critical to our NATIONAL SECURITY.
I would guess that some of them, at least, are in the top 5 military contractors.
Why is no one mentioning this?
I can tell you why Obama isn't. Because his supporters are far left loonies who DESPISE THE MILITARY and want America to be defeated militarily (and every other way).
Obviously he has been afraid to mention this because he was afraid that his own supporters would have told him to let Detroit go to hell. And he wasn't ready to do that until now.
Now that the fix is in, he can let them go.
[Edited on 3/30/2009 5:41 PM]
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| Mar 30 @ 5:36 PM |
Obama takes over gm and chrysler
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roythead
Posts: 92
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thanks for elaborating
[Edited on 3/30/2009 5:43 PM]
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| Mar 30 @ 7:03 PM |
Obama takes over gm and chrysler |
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Peabianjay
Posts: 1,790
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DR: Because his supporters are far left loonies who DESPISE THE MILITARY and want America to be defeated militarily (and every other way)
Quite the contrary. I don't want america invading, at all. You can't lose wars you're not in. A strong military is important as a deterrant.
As for corporate welfare, ya, I oppose that. Companies should be free to survive (or fail) on their own. If they can't handle foreign competition...the public shouldn't be bailing them out.
As for the CEO's bonus....more than likely, it's a legal obligation. Hopefully, with this latest ultimatum, new contracts won't include rewards for failure.
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| Mar 30 @ 7:19 PM |
Obama takes over gm and chrysler
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DiamondRain
Posts: 6,354
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Oh I see...
When a rational business decision is made by a CEO to pay bonuses to failed executives who are contractually entitled to them by law, then the left says f*** the law and wants everyone involved publicly flogged and pilloried followed by tar and feathering and beheading. (as just happened with AIG)
But when Obama the anointed one, gives out multi million dollar bonuses to failed executives for the very same reason, according to the same liberals, it's an act of God and an inviolate legal obligation not to be questioned.
Is that about right?
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| Mar 30 @ 7:29 PM |
Obama takes over gm and chrysler |
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Peabianjay
Posts: 1,790
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Ya might wanna edit that post, DR, after re-reading mine.
I quite clearly stated, "It's a legal obligation" (ie. Obama had no choice about the $20 million dollar bonus YOU criticized.)
Further, I stated, "....new contracts...". ie. Hopefullly, the same mistakes aren't made again.
You're the one implying the law should be ignored....that somehow, Obama should override the contractual obligations to the CEO in his contract.
So, no. You're not only wrong, you've stated the complete opposite.
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| Mar 30 @ 7:39 PM |
Obama takes over gm and chrysler
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DiamondRain
Posts: 6,354
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I believe it's you who needs to reread my post.
I never said that a legally contracted bonus should not be paid. I have always argued that it should.
My post is about the glaring double standard and hypocrisy of the left.
Not more than a few days ago, they were denouncing AIG for paying bonuses it was legally contracted to pay, and acting like a lynch mob in the middle of the night demanding that the government misuse its powers to persecute these innocent private citizens.
It got so bad that some of these people feared for their lives and were intimidated through tyrannical government action into giving their bonuses back.
Not two days later, Obama personally approves paying out a $20 million dollar bonus to the GM guy (which by the way is far more money than any single employee at AIG received) and there isn't a peep out of the left (not to mention the media who had seizures over the AIG bonuses).
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| Mar 30 @ 7:41 PM |
Obama takes over gm and chrysler |
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SweetNapaGuy
Posts: 8,471
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*blink blink*
You... are railing against... double-standards...?
You...? Mr. "The neo-cons can do no wrong, the liberals can do no right"?
Just so we're clear: you disapprove of double-standards, but only when the left does it, correct?
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| Mar 30 @ 7:47 PM |
Obama takes over gm and chrysler
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DiamondRain
Posts: 6,354
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It's all a cover up and whitewash to hide Obama's disastrous handling of the auto makers situation.
After frittering away what, about $70 billion of taxpayers money to GM and Chrysler, they are failing anyway and now he finally makes them do what they should have done a long time ago (when taxpayers were $70 billion richer).
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| Mar 30 @ 8:05 PM |
Obama takes over gm and chrysler |
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alivenwell351
Posts: 3,011
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DR..I agree with most of what you say....If anything the bamasiah has done so far comes back to bite him in the ass, this might be it...
However, GM came crawling to the Govt. (lil Bush first!!) for a handout..and it's no secret, or no surprise, what we get with the bamanation...
As a wise person once told me...When you dance with the devil he gets to pick the tune......and the name of the tune today is..."One step closer to socialism"...
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| Mar 30 @ 8:06 PM |
Obama takes over gm and chrysler
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SweetNapaGuy
Posts: 8,471
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So... Even in having moral outrage over double standards, you see nothing hypocritical about your own double standards?
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| Mar 30 @ 8:07 PM |
Obama takes over gm and chrysler |
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Gallows_Humor
Posts: 13,645
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links please..as IMHO.you are all over reacting..
wagoner blew it..and should be let go...end of story...
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D978K2B80.htmNEW YORK Former General Motors Corp. Chairman and Chief Executive Rick Wagoner won't get a severance payment from the automaker, but he'll still get a pension and other benefits worth an estimated $23 million. In nearly 32 years with the company, Wagoner accrued pension benefits that the company valued at $22.1 million at the end of last year. The actual amount Wagoner will receive could vary because it will be paid in installments over the rest of his life. Wagoner, 56, also is entitled to $366,602 in unvested stock awards and $534,627 in deferred compensation as of Dec. 31, according to GM's annual report. "From the perspective of the average person, most of these payouts are going to seem like a lot of money," said Alexander Cwirko-Godycki, research manager at Equilar Inc., an information services firm that specializes in researching executive compensation. "But from the perspective of executive pensions, there have been other cases where there's been a lot more money involved." Wagoner also gets to keep about 3 million stock options, which allow him to buy GM shares at prices ranging from about $20 to $76. With GM's stock price now less than $3 per share, however, the options have little value unless the stock price reaches those levels before the options expire. GM said early Monday that Wagoner was stepping down effective immediately, ending nearly nine years at the Detroit-based automaker's helm. Obama administration officials asked Wagoner to step aside as part of the government's plan to help the struggling automaker, and he was replaced as CEO by Fritz Henderson, the company's chief operating officer. GM released a statement later Monday saying it was still reviewing the specifics of the compensation Wagoner would receive. As a condition of GM's government loans, the automaker is not allowed to pay severances to departing executives. Government officials began to crack down on so called "golden parachutes" after last fall's backlash over $24 million in exit packages for the ousted chief executives of mortgage finance companies Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. The severance payments were never made. Cwirko-Godycki said the biggest factor contributing to an executive's pension is how long he works for the company and the size of his salary over the years. From the beginning of his career at GM through the end of 2008, Wagoner received compensation totaling about $63.3 million, with $38.7 million of that coming during his years as its chief executive, Cwirko-Godycki said. The totals take into account Wagoner's base salary, cash bonus payouts, long-term incentive plan payouts, gains from stock option exercises, and other compensation. That was before Wagoner agreed to accept a salary of $1 for 2009 as part of the automaker's restructuring plan. Cwirko-Godycki noted that if Wagoner had left GM at the end of 2008, he could have received a severance payment as high as $17.1 million on top of his pension and other compensation. Before the government became involved in its finances, the company's policies allowed its board to award severance payments as high as 2.99 times an executive's base salary and target bonus. Brian Tobin, midwest region practice leader for The Hay Group's executive compensation practice, said GM had already taken steps to limit how much money Wagoner could walk away with even before the government bailout. Wagoner's base salary was rolled back in 2008, and his overall compensation was heavily tied to the company's stock performance. In addition, Tobin said, Wagoner wasn't guaranteed any severance even before the government was involved. Most companies guarantee executives a minimum amount if they lose their jobs, but GM's potential payouts were solely at the board's discretion. "Unfortunately for him, he's leaving the company at a time when GM's stock and the overall market are extremely depressed compared to where they were just five years ago," Tobin said.
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| Mar 30 @ 8:10 PM |
Obama takes over gm and chrysler
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Peabianjay
Posts: 1,790
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My post is about the glaring double standard and hypocrisy of the left. What double standard? There isn't one. Bonus's were paid, in both cases, according to contractual obligations. And, again, in both cases, no one really liked it. Unfortunately, those contracts were made long before Obama had any possibility of influencing them.
DR: ...do what they should have done a long time ago.. Ya, like before Obama was elected. (More than likely, before Bush, too.) But, somehow, it's still Obama's fault.
So, you suggest Obama should manipulate private contracts....and, yet, don't much like socialism. Who's the hypocrite?
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| Mar 31 @ 12:20 AM |
Obama takes over gm and chrysler |
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lefthandedluckie
Posts: 6,386
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The republicans are just mad that Obama is the President! So, they attack him even when he goes to pizz! Problem is and facts are facts republicans are just not as smart as Democrats!
Check out the top 2 post to prove my point! Nuf'said! 
And just to prove my point that Democrats are smarter than republicans I have a complex compilation of different Presidents and their IQ's to back up my post....Democrats are smarter than republicans a proven fact
George W. "Dumbya" Bush only has a 91 IQ the stupidest President to ever sit in the White House!
Bill Clinton a 182 IQ!
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| Mar 31 @ 1:19 AM |
Obama takes over gm and chrysler
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JesterDrawers
Posts: 11,116
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What does a person's IQ have to do with making the right decision? Seems to me the person with the higher IQ could figure out more ways to do more devious things that the person with the lower IQ, who just might make those decisions based upon his values and principles, as opposed to trying to figure out just how much he can line his own pockets in the process.
And this is not about Clinton, Bush and/or Obama. Just an observation. All things considered, I think I'd prefer the person who's more centered because of solid principles and the desire to do good for all concerned. If that means that that person has a lower IQ, so be it.
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| Mar 31 @ 1:45 AM |
Obama takes over gm and chrysler |
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SweetNapaGuy
Posts: 8,471
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Jester, that website is dubious at best. Bush was smart enough to get an MBA. He may have graduated at near the bottom of his class, but he DID graduate (and from Harvard, no less). He also succeeded in business, albeit in the Texas style of nepotism-soaked business.
Bush is smart, but incurious and inflexible. Dangerous in a leader, as we've had a chance to see.
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| Mar 31 @ 3:49 AM |
Obama takes over gm and chrysler
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SensualGemini
Posts: 6,858
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.
...You folks need to quit reading the comic section and do some real research. For starters, try....
Cerberus Capital Management, L.P.
...All the rest is smoke and mirrors to divert America's attention to the insignificant.
==================
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| Mar 31 @ 6:15 AM |
Obama takes over gm and chrysler |
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roythead
Posts: 92
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luckie said "Check out the top 2 post to prove my point! Nuf'said!"
wtf!!!!
you wanna call me dumb. you don't know me.
I stated fact, you stated opinion. get over yourself.
now you wanna have a decent conversation, thats cool, but DON'T COME ON HERE with the sole purpose of insulting people.
Now the fact that he govrnment is issue orders to a private co. that is socialism. Yes they took money, but if they take money from a bank the bank doesn't go in and tell them what to do.
I'll be in kentucky all day "bubba", asamatter of fact, i am loading 16 miles from paducah this morning.so if you feel froggy hollar and we can discuss this face to face.
Once again. do not insult my intelligence. When It gets personal, I get pissed.
[Edited on 3/31/2009 6:29 AM]
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| Mar 31 @ 10:40 AM |
Obama takes over gm and chrysler
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Angel54214
Posts: 18,174
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Yup! Comic News Central!
Lovenstein Institute Presidential IQ Report
In July, 2001 an e-mail began to circulate claiming that the Lovenstein Institute, a think-tank based in Scranton, Pennsylvania, had conducted research into the IQ of all the Presidents of the past 50 years and concluded that George W. Bush ranked at the bottom, with an IQ of only 91. The e-mail originated as a joke report on linkydinky.com. In its original version, the joke was evident. The Pennsylvania Court Observer was cited as the source for the news, but this paper was described as having a circlation of only five. Furthermore, Dr. Lovenstein was described as "living in a mobile home in Scranton, Pennsylvania." As the joke began to make its way through people's e-mail, however, these textual clues were removed, and people began to assume that the Lovenstein Institute was a real research organization. The London Guardian reported the Lovenstein Report as a real news item on July 19. On August 26 Doonesbury, a comic strip written by Garry Trudeau, also featured the Lovenstein report, and this comic strip appeared on the Doonesbury website on September 2. Once they learned of their mistakes, both Trudeau and the Guardian published retractions.
From Hoaxes That Occurred in September, 2001
http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/newhoaxes/sep2001.html
I like this one better!
http://www.amconmag.com/article/2004/dec/06/00011/
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| Mar 31 @ 10:49 AM |
Obama takes over gm and chrysler |
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Gallows_Humor
Posts: 13,645
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and your point is??? 
Chrysler
In 2007, Cerberus purchased an 80% stake in Chrysler, promising to bolster the auto maker’s performance by operating as an independent company. In 2008, the plan collapsed due to an unprecedented slowdown in the U.S. auto industry and a lack of capital.[5] In response to questioning at a hearing before the House committee on December 5, 2008 by Rep. Ginny Brown-Waite, Chrysler President and CEO Robert Nardelli said that Cerberus' fiduciary obligations to its other investors and investments prohibited it from injecting capital[5].
On March 30, 2009, it was announced that Cerberus Capital Management will lose its equity stake and ownership in Chrysler as a condition of the Treasury Department’s bailout deal, but Cerberus will maintain a controlling stake in Chrysler’s financing arm, Chrysler Financial. Cerberus will utilize the first $2 billion in proceeds from its Chrysler Financial holding to backstop a $4 billion December, 2008 Treasury Department loan given to Chrysler. In exchange for obtaining that loan, it promised many concessions including surrendering equity, foregoing profits, and giving up board seats:
“In order to achieve that goal Cerberus has advised the Treasury that it would contribute its equity in Chrysler automotive to labor and creditors as currency to facilitate the accommodations necessary to affect the restructuring.”[6]
[edit] GMAC
Cerberus acquired 51 percent of GMAC from General Motors in 2006 for $7.4 billion. [7]
In 2006, Cerberus appointed Merkin as nonexecutive Chairman.[8]
As of October 15, 2008, GMAC had $173 billion of debt against $140 billion of income-producing assets (loans and leases), some which are almost worthless, in addition to GMAC Bank’s $17 billion in deposits (a liability). Even if GMAC liquidated the loans and leases, it couldn’t pay back all of its debt.[9]
In a statement, on December 10, 2008, GMAC said, "GMAC LLC, the auto and home lender seeking federal aid, hasn’t obtained enough capital to become a bank holding company and may abandon the effort, casting new doubt on the firm’s ability to survive. A $38 billion debt exchange by GMAC and its Residential Capital LLC mortgage unit to reduce the company's outstanding debt and raise capital hasn’t attracted enough participation." This was due in part because Cerberus had raised the credit requirements for car loans so high, virtually eliminating leasing, that they have been responsible for a sizable chunk of lost sales at GM due to customers inability to secure financing, in order to pressure GM into selling or trading their remaining stake in GMAC. [10] GM stands to write-off over a billion dollars in lost residuals– which they paid up front to GMAC. GMAC's exposure to the gap in residual values is around $3.5 billion. [11]
In December, 2008, Cerberus subsequently informed GMAC’s bondholders that the financial services company may have to file for bankruptcy if a bond-exchange plan is not approved. The company had previously said it may fail in its quest to become a bank holding company because it lacks adequate capital.[12]
In January, 2009, Merkin resigned from his chairmanship as a condition by the U.S. government. [13]
Five days earlier, the Federal Reserve granted GMAC bank holding company status, so it could get access to the bailout money. [14]
On December 29, 2008, the U.S. Treasury gave GMAC $5 billion from its $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP).
Mercedes Benz stripped Chrysler of all it's assets and then sold it off (for big bucks) .. to an "idiot company" with more money than brains...
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