| Apr 21 @ 8:05 PM |
Waterboarding SAVED LOS ANGELES - Yet Obama Won't Allow It
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DiamondRain
Posts: 6,351
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Which is more immoral: subjecting a terrorist to a few seconds of harmless fear in order to get information that saves innocent lives, or failing to use a proven successful interrogation technique and allowing innocent people, perhaps thousands of innocent people, to be murdered?
Only a lunatic would say it is the former.
Thank God President Bush understood the importance of waterboarding and USED IT to save the lives of countless Americans.
President Obama, on the other hand, ignored the advice of 5 CIA Directors including the current Director who works for him and released TOP SECRET information about the interrogation techniques the US used to extract information that saved American lives after 9/11. By definition, TOP SECRET means information that, if revealed, would cause serious harm to American national security.
What an arrogant stinking bastard. This president is damaging our national security for his own political purposes.
Thank God some of us get it. But now that Obama and his terrorist apologists are in office, and they are destroying the tools our military and intelligence agencies need to defend us, one by one, who is going to keep us safe?
Here is the actual story of how waterboarding was used to save Los Angeles from what would have been at least as bad a fate as New York suffered on 9/11. PLEASE READ TO GET THE TRUTH
Story is on next post...immediately below.
[Edited on 4/21/2009 8:18 PM]
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| Apr 21 @ 8:05 PM |
Waterboarding SAVED LOS ANGELES - Yet Obama Won't Allow It |
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DiamondRain
Posts: 6,351
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CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style Attack on Los Angeles
Tuesday, April 21, 2009
By Terence P. Jeffrey, Editor-in-Chief
CNSNews.com
The Central Intelligence Agency told CNSNews.com today that it stands by the assertion made in a May 30, 2005 Justice Department memo that the use of “enhanced techniques” of interrogation on al Qaeda leader Khalid Sheik Mohammed (KSM) -- including the use of waterboarding -- caused KSM to reveal information that allowed the U.S. government to thwart a planned attack on Los Angeles.
Before he was waterboarded, when KSM was asked about planned attacks on the United States, he ominously told his CIA interrogators, “Soon, you will know.”
According to the previously classified May 30, 2005 Justice Department memo that was released by President Barack Obama last week, the thwarted attack -- which KSM called the “Second Wave”-- planned “ ‘to use East Asian operatives to crash a hijacked airliner into’ a building in Los Angeles.”
KSM was the mastermind of the first “hijacked-airliner” attacks on the United States, which struck the World Trade Center in New York and the Pentagon in Northern Virginia on Sept. 11, 2001.
After KSM was captured by the United States, he was not initially cooperative with CIA interrogators. Nor was another top al Qaeda leader named Zubaydah. KSM, Zubaydah, and a third terrorist named Nashiri were the only three persons ever subjected to waterboarding by the CIA. (Additional terrorist detainees were subjected to other “enhanced techniques” that included slapping, sleep deprivation, dietary limitations, and temporary confinement to small spaces -- but not to water-boarding.)
This was because the CIA imposed very tight restrictions on the use of waterboarding. “The ‘waterboard,’ which is the most intense of the CIA interrogation techniques, is subject to additional limits,” explained the May 30, 2005 Justice Department memo. “It may be used on a High Value Detainee only if the CIA has ‘credible intelligence that a terrorist attack is imminent’; ‘substantial and credible indicators that the subject has actionable intelligence that can prevent, disrupt or deny this attack’; and ‘[o]ther interrogation methods have failed to elicit this information within the perceived time limit for preventing the attack.’”
The quotations in this part of the Justice memo were taken from an Aug. 2, 2004 letter that CIA Acting General Counsel John A. Rizzo sent to the Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel.
Before they were subjected to “enhanced techniques” of interrogation that included waterboarding, KSM and Zubaydah were not only uncooperative but also appeared contemptuous of the will of the American people to defend themselves.
“In particular, the CIA believes that it would have been unable to obtain critical information from numerous detainees, including KSM and Abu Zubaydah, without these enhanced techniques,” says the Justice Department memo. “Both KSM and Zubaydah had ‘expressed their belief that the general US population was ‘weak,’ lacked resilience, and would be unable to ‘do what was necessary’ to prevent the terrorists from succeeding in their goals.’ Indeed, before the CIA used enhanced techniques in its interrogation of KSM, KSM resisted giving any answers to questions about future attacks, simply noting, ‘Soon you will know.’”
After he was subjected to the “waterboard” technique, KSM became cooperative, providing intelligence that led to the capture of key al Qaeda allies and, eventually, the closing down of an East Asian terrorist cell that had been tasked with carrying out the 9/11-style attack on Los Angeles.
The May 30, 2005 Justice Department memo that details what happened in this regard was written by then-Principal Deputy Attorney General Steven G. Bradbury to John A. Rizzo, the senior deputy general counsel for the CIA.
“You have informed us that the interrogation of KSM—once enhanced techniques were employed—led to the discovery of a KSM plot, the ‘Second Wave,’ ‘to use East Asian operatives to crash a hijacked airliner into’ a building in Los Angeles,” says the memo.
“You have informed us that information obtained from KSM also led to the capture of Riduan bin Isomuddin, better known as Hambali, and the discover of the Guraba Cell, a 17-member Jemaah Islamiyah cell tasked with executing the ‘Second Wave,’” reads the memo. “More specifically, we understand that KSM admitted that he had [redaction] large sum of money to an al Qaeda associate [redaction] … Khan subsequently identified the associate (Zubair), who was then captured. Zubair, in turn, provided information that led to the arrest of Hambali. The information acquired from these captures allowed CIA interrogators to pose more specific questions to KSM, which led the CIA to Hambali’s brother, al Hadi. Using information obtained from multiple sources, al-Hadi was captured, and he subsequently identified the Garuba cell. With the aid of this additional information, interrogations of Hambali confirmed much of what was learned from KSM.”
continued next post...
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| Apr 21 @ 8:07 PM |
Waterboarding SAVED LOS ANGELES - Yet Obama Won't Allow It
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DiamondRain
Posts: 6,351
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A CIA spokesman confirmed to CNSNews.com today that the CIA stands by the factual assertions made here.
In the memo itself, the Justice Department’s Bradbury told the CIA’s Rossi: “Your office has informed us that the CIA believes that ‘the intelligence acquired from these interrogations has been a key reason why al Qa’ida has failed to launch a spectacular attack in the West since 11 September 2001.”
end
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| Apr 21 @ 8:15 PM |
Waterboarding SAVED LOS ANGELES - Yet Obama Won't Allow It |
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Gallows_Humor
Posts: 13,643
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 ...big sigh....
old news...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/la-shoebomb-plot-terrorists-planned-a-west-coast-911-in-2002-466347.html...President Bush claimed in his speech that the US, in concert with foreign governments, had "faced down a relentless and determined enemy" and "stopped a catastrophic attack on our homeland". He said the plot was orchestrated by Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the suspected mastermind behind the September 2001 attacks on New York and Washington, who recruited four Asian men to board a plane, breach the cockpit door with shoe bombs and then fly into the tower. (It did not help matters that the President called it the "Liberty Tower" instead of the Library Tower.) The President's domestic security adviser, Frances Townsend, soon told reporters, however, that the attack on LA was originally conceived as part of the 11 September attacks but was postponed because al-Qa'ida did not have the resources to pull it off. Several security experts said that they did not believe the plot ever went past the conceptual stage before it was disrupted by a series of arrests in Asia after 9/11. South-east Asian experts told the Associated Press that the man recruited to fly the plane into the Los Angeles tower, a Malaysian engineer called Zaini Zakaria, pulled out of the plot after he saw the scale of the destruction and death at the World Trade Center in New York. He later gave himself up to Malaysian authorities. "Let's call this what it was," said Mr Weiss, the Los Angeles city council member. "President Bush is digging out of an extraordinarily large political hole ... He's trying to build support for the NSA [National Security Agency] wiretapping programme and so, to build that support, he dusts off details that are at best three years old, at worst closer to four years old ... But this plot was evanescent ... and it's not clear precisely how American assets interrupted the plot. It's just part of his constant speechifying, to impress upon people what he's doing in the war on terror." The indignation rapidly spread beyond Los Angeles. Hillary Clinton, gearing up to run for President in 2008, said the White House was "playing the fear card". John Rockefeller, Senator for West Virginia who sits on the Intelligence Committee, was one of several Democrats who said he could see little security-related reason for President Bush's announcement.
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| Apr 21 @ 8:19 PM |
Waterboarding SAVED LOS ANGELES - Yet Obama Won't Allow It
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Loreli
Posts: 25,398
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DR-
already discussed...hon 
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| Apr 21 @ 8:33 PM |
Waterboarding SAVED LOS ANGELES - Yet Obama Won't Allow It |
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DiamondRain
Posts: 6,351
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My ass it was already discussed. This is brand new information revealed in brand new statements issued by the CIA in defense of their use of waterboarding after Obama released top secret memos that attempted to undermine their actions.
It adds an entirely new dimension to the shameful actions that Obama undertook in releasing these memos, and his even more shameful policy of eliminating the few available effective interrogation techniques that we have to stop Americans from being murdered by Islamic terrorists.
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| Apr 21 @ 8:36 PM |
Waterboarding SAVED LOS ANGELES - Yet Obama Won't Allow It
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SweetNapaGuy
Posts: 8,467
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So there was absolutely NO CHANCE that this information could have been picked up through other channels? No chance at all? None? Not one iota of information might have been detected?
Wow. Might as well surrender now, if they've got that good of data security...
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| Apr 21 @ 8:40 PM |
Waterboarding SAVED LOS ANGELES - Yet Obama Won't Allow It |
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DiamondRain
Posts: 6,351
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What's Obama's plan to deal with people like this?
Bow down, kiss their rings and while you're down there kiss their asses and lick their boots too? -- like he did on his world apology tour?
Worked real well didn't it?
Two days after he kissed Ahmadinejad's ass in Iran, and told him we would hold direct talks with him, THE IRANIAN'S TOOK AN AMERICAN CITIZEN HOSTAGE AND TRUMPED UP CHARGES AGAINST HER.
That's Obama's idea of defending America?
The Iranian's are holding an American hostage as we speak. That's how Obama defends us?!
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| Apr 21 @ 9:41 PM |
Waterboarding SAVED LOS ANGELES - Yet Obama Won't Allow It
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Gallows_Humor
Posts: 13,643
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why start a thread when there are two threads devoted to each of your issues??
http://www.matchdoctor.com/thread_88_35075_1/Iran_Sentences_American_Journalist_To_8_Years_In_Prison.html
http://www.matchdoctor.com/thread_88_35073_1/Find_The_Hidden_Torture.html
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| Apr 21 @ 9:58 PM |
Waterboarding SAVED LOS ANGELES - Yet Obama Won't Allow It |
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DiamondRain
Posts: 6,351
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Disarming our country isn't the only thing Obama is doing to make us less safe.
Obama is more concerned about being liked than defending this country's interests. He is shallow, hopelessly naïve and suffers from the same capitulation complex that got us into one international disaster after another with Jimmy Carter.
How is Obama's Kumbaya diplomacy working out?
Well let;s just look at one week...
Obama "reaches out" to Iran, telling them how we are changing our strategy and offering them direct talks. How does Iran respond? They respond that they are adding 6,700 new and enhanced centrifuges to enrich uranium and accelerating their nuclear program. And then they took an American citizen hostage and are still holding her.
Then, while Obama embraces North Korea, and at the very moment Obama is giving a speech about how we are planning to disarm our nuclear arsenal so as not to offend anyone, North Korea launches in intercontinental missile capable of carrying a nuclear warhead to the United States.
So then Obama goes to Venezuela, just to beg that mass murdering dictator, Hugo Chavez not to be angry with us. What does Chavez do to reciprocate? He shoves a vial anti-American book in Obama's hand ON CAMERA so that the pictures are broadcasted all over the planet, making Obama, and America look like the world's biggest punk who just bent over and took it up the ass.
But it doesn't matter what these guys do, as long as they like him,.
Of course they like him. They love him! He is the world's biggest punk and most valuable useful idiot for the forces of evil in the history of the world.
God forbid this country suffers another large scale terrorist attack, IT WILL BE OBAMA'S FAULT.
[Edited on 4/21/2009 10:06 PM]
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| Apr 21 @ 9:59 PM |
Waterboarding SAVED LOS ANGELES - Yet Obama Won't Allow It
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SweetNapaGuy
Posts: 8,467
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Yawn...
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| Apr 21 @ 10:16 PM |
Waterboarding SAVED LOS ANGELES - Yet Obama Won't Allow It |
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DiamondRain
Posts: 6,351
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Chavez wasted no time, by the way, capitalizing on Obama's propaganda assistance.
Today Chavez released a statement boasting that finally one of his greatest accomplishments is coming to fruition: spreading Chavez style Venezuelan socialism to the United States.
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| Apr 21 @ 10:17 PM |
Waterboarding SAVED LOS ANGELES - Yet Obama Won't Allow It
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SweetNapaGuy
Posts: 8,467
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Yawn.
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| Apr 23 @ 4:11 PM |
Waterboarding SAVED LOS ANGELES - Yet Obama Won't Allow It |
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musicianfriend
Posts: 2,269
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 ********Did anyone see that interview with Oliver North on 4/22/2009? I thought is was on CNN? I cant find it anywhere on the net..Yet it was on the TV last nite? ********
He said that by Obamas neutering of the CIA , it will hurt this country..make us very vulnerable..and in danger..
(This idiot Obama is going to get people killed..But i think thats his intentions..Hes not listening to us..Obama doesnt care about the Americans...yea..you to leftys not you either...)
He said that Obama cant keep doing this to this country for another 6 mos..its dangerous...That he will be either impeached or someone is going to take him out..
Obama is more willing to ATTACK THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND THE FOUNDATIONS OF THIS NATION than our enemies..
Hes a foreigner and I believe a Muslim and not loyal to this country..
THIS SHOULD BOTHER YOU..Dont act like a freaking sheep..Ive seen your proof...ITs not proof at all...yet your ok with it? This is what makes you look like sheep to people like me...the proof isnt proof at all...Do you realize that your 'leaders' deem you so stupid that they know you will beleive their lies and then stick up for them..
Wheres the freaking birth certificate...not the live birth cert that anyone can get...but the certified birth certificate...
HES A LIAR AND BECAUSE OUR POLITICIANS DO NOT REQUIRE HIM TO PROVE HIS CITIZENSHIP...THEY ARE TRAITORS TO THIS NATION.
IMPEACH THE WHOLE BUNCH OF TRAITORS
IMPEACH OBAMA
IMPEACH PELOUSI
IMPEACH FRANK
IMPEACH ALL OF THOSE MISERABLE LOOSERS..
Americans unite...ignore these progressive divsion tactics...they are only trying splinter us so that their opposition is smaller..then when they conquer us ...they will come after you too..Its only a matter of time...Unless you enjoy being a slave..
[Edited on 4/23/2009 4:16 PM]
[Edited on 4/23/2009 4:17 PM]
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| Apr 23 @ 4:15 PM |
Waterboarding SAVED LOS ANGELES - Yet Obama Won't Allow It
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Nightowl001
Posts: 7,492
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Ive seen your proof...ITs not proof at all...yet your ok with it? This is what makes you look like sheep to people like me...the proof isnt proof at all.    ('scuse me.. whew)
I haven't laughed that hard in a long time.
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| Apr 23 @ 4:20 PM |
Waterboarding SAVED LOS ANGELES - Yet Obama Won't Allow It |
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musicianfriend
Posts: 2,269
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I haven't laughed that hard in a long time.
You still didnt answer me...but thats the norm..
but I am greatly glad to have helped you enjoy your life and actually laugh...cool!!!
I hope that made you feel better...because the time for laughter will be over soon after Obama gets his way...
WE will all be equally poor....equally desperate....equally in danger.....equally miserable....equally slaves to the NWO..nothing but robots...on autopilot ....pursing a course that our 'daddy' gov set for us....unable to think for ourselves anymore nor make any decisions for our own lives....controlled...like robots...STEPFORD WIVES.....NOT HUMAN AT ALL.
'
You see its like this"\
Your Utopia
will be my Hell..
I love freedom..I am a creative person...creative people thrive on the freedom to be who they are....we dont need a 'daddy' to help us...we make our own way...we are smart enough to do that all by ourselves....we work...we plan...we save...we prepare...we think for ourselves..we abide by the laws...we live responsible lives....we dont need any help..we need the gov to get out of our way....
Hey...since Chavez of Venezuala thinks hes 'helped' us to socialism...even though his own people hate it...why dont you guys move there? Leave us alone...Ill pay your tickets..and even buy you a bouquet of roses if you will just leave my America alone..
Your America too? NOpe...not at all. YOu dont embrace the American ways or traditions...to me ...you are traitors...disloyal to this nation and are only seeking to destroy it and its foundations...
There used to be laws against this behaviour..Oh yea..there still is..but no one is enforcing them...at least...not for now... 
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| Apr 23 @ 4:41 PM |
Waterboarding SAVED LOS ANGELES - Yet Obama Won't Allow It
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MotownManiax
Posts: 9,737
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I heard on one of the national news programs last night (think it was NBC) that Cheney wishes the memo's detailing how many plots were "foiled" by our counterintelligence methods were also released. All this negative press is a bit one-sided.
In the interests of fairness, if there are such memo's (and they don't reveal anything to terrorists) they should definitely be released, and quickly.
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| Apr 23 @ 5:12 PM |
Waterboarding SAVED LOS ANGELES - Yet Obama Won't Allow It |
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Nightowl001
Posts: 7,492
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You still didnt answer me...but thats the norm.. Answer WHAT? What legitimate question lies buried in all that? Where is his birth certificate? I'm not even getting into that one again. Obviously no standard of "proof" is good enough to convince you of something you don't want to believe, while you point to the most uninformed opinions by the most ignorant bloggers you can find as "proof."
As for the misleading (lying) OP... In February 2002, bin Arshad, the leader of the four operatives, is arrested and other other members decide the plot has been canceled. Zakaria turns himself in to Malaysian authorities in 2002, Zaini Zakaria time line
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was captured in Rawalpindi, Pakistan on March 1, 2003 by the Pakistani ISI, possibly in a joint action with agents of the American Diplomatic Security Service, and has been in U.S. custody since that time.
It's just an outright lie to claim waterboarding someone captured a year after the operation fell apart is responsible for "saving" Los Angeles, because they were informed after the fact about a plot that never came to fruition. Torturing someone to get information about something they were thinking about doing that never happened. Maybe, since they're so in favor of waterboarding and warrantless taps, they won't mind when the CIA shows up on THEIR doorsteps, looking to waterboard them and discover they were thinking they'd like to see President Obama lose the election! Maybe we can prevent them from rigging the election so McCain wins!
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| Apr 23 @ 5:40 PM |
Waterboarding SAVED LOS ANGELES - Yet Obama Won't Allow It
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DiamondRain
Posts: 6,351
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It's worse than that MM.
Obama ignored the warnings of his own intelligence director plus 4 more intelligence directors who served under both Democrats and Republicans before him and released these memos even though they all warned of the serious damage to national security that would result from that action.
But even that's not all.
I saw the memos that were released.
Many parts were blacked out so you could not read those sections. Some pages were almost entirely blacked out.
Since Obama was willing to ignore the advice of the intelligence community, and risk our national security anyway, why black ANY of it out?
What was on those pages?
Could it be that the information that was blacked out, was so damaging to national security that even Obama couldn't bring himself to do it?
Could it be that Obama has a conscience and at least wanted to take the 5 CIA Directors warning into account and compromise a little in case he was wrong?
DON'T COUNT ON IT.
What was on the blacked out pages? That's the part Vice President Cheney is trying to tell us about.
What was on them was the RESULTS of the interrogation methods used. What was on them was information about the SUCCESS of the interrogations and how they SAVED AMERICAN LIVES by using the interrogations.
Obama INTENTIONALLY released information making the intelligence community look bad by photoshoping it to take out the good parts. He INTENTIONALLY removed the information about the outstanding success the CIA achieved in thwarting another 9/11 style attack.
That's transparancy? Sounds more like deception and fraud to me. Not to mention a reckless disregard for America's national security (at least).
Obama compromised our national security, against the advice of virtually the entire intelligence community to further his far left political agenda to distract attention away from what his administration is doing and try to focus it back on President Bush's administration.
The result of Obama's actions will be to send a chill through the intelligence community and set it back to the disfunctional system that it was before 9/11.
If you work for the CIA, are you going to do anything aggressive to stop our enemies knowing that some future administration is going to go over your every action with a fine tooth comb and threaten to jail you if they don't like what you did? Forget about it.
Obama wants to return the intelligence community back into a bunch of paper pushing bureaucrats, just like they were in the years leading up to 9/11.
And with this kind of stunt he is very likely to get his way.
Meanwhile he is arrogantly ignoring the advice of our most expert intelligence advisors and jeopardizing the lives and freedom of all Americans.
[Edited on 4/23/2009 5:46 PM]
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| Apr 23 @ 5:48 PM |
Waterboarding SAVED LOS ANGELES - Yet Obama Won't Allow It |
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SweetNapaGuy
Posts: 8,467
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DR, did you just criticize Obama for BOTH releasing the information and NOT releasing the information?
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