| Jul 31 @ 4:05 AM |
DO YOU KNOW WHAT'S IN THE NEW HEALTH CARE BILL???
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southernlass
Posts: 2,211
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Seems there's some intriguing items in the new health care bill that several on various forums are pretty upset about. I scanned through the various offerings at the link at the bottom of my post here, and have highlighted those that tended to concern me most.
After you look through the list at the link toward the bottom of this post, share with us what you find that concerns you, or if you feel this bill is positive for the American people, share why. Thanks!
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July 23, 2009
Look Here to See What’s in the Health Care Bill: CHILLING!
Larry Schweikart
Take a look at what actually is in the Health Care bill. Obama makes disingenuous comments like "You'll still keep your doctor" or "You'll keep your existing health care." He is either lying to us or he has no idea what is in it. Take a peek at the full report, or look at some of the highlights here:
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Pg 58 HC Bill – Government will have real-time access to individual’s finances and a National ID Healthcard will be issued!
Pg 59 HC Bill lines 21-24 Government will have direct access to your bank accts for electronic funds transfer
PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Government provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in how to die.
PG 427 Lines 15-24 Government mandates program for orders for end of life. The Government has a say in how your life ends.
Pg 429 Lines 1-9 An "advanced care planning consultant" will be used frequently as patients’ health deteriorates.
PG 429 Lines 10-12 "advanced care consultation" may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from the Government to end a life!
Pg 429 Lines 13-25 - The Government will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order.
PG 430 Lines 11-15 The Government will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life.
http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/id.3815/pub_detail.asp
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| Jul 31 @ 4:17 AM |
DO YOU KNOW WHAT'S IN THE NEW HEALTH CARE BILL??? |
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burnslikethesun
Posts: 13,027
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umm so, nothing to scary so far.
They pretty much have these powers. hell they should even adopt some of these to other programs. Help cut out fraud.
Now have you ever taken a close look at the beloved Patriot act?
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| Jul 31 @ 4:21 AM |
DO YOU KNOW WHAT'S IN THE NEW HEALTH CARE BILL???
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southernlass
Posts: 2,211
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You'll want a look at this as well, I have no doubt. It's worth the read. Not sure what we can do about this at the moment. I hope someone here clarifies some of our options or is this simply going to be the way it is? It is too late to do anything about this? See the following link to see all of this in its entirety.
http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/id.3872/pub_detail.asp
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July 30, 2009
More Details on ObamaCare: The Horrifying Proof is in the Bill – If Only More Lawmakers Would Read It!The Editors
Editor’s note: The following was received via e-mail. Based on the popularity of the last “what’s in the healthcare bill” article we ran, we decided to run this as well, as it contains even more detail as to what’s in the bill that Rep. John Conyers complained he doesn’t have enough time to read before he votes on it. An informed electorate may be all that stands between America as we have known it and a nation that heads down a non-reversible socialist path.
Peter Fleckenstein, a blogger and former Marine from Phoenix, Arizona, is going through the ObamaCare bill page by page and highlighting the provisions he finds there. Here, clearly, Fleckenstein has struck a nerve. His list, originally published as a series of Twitter posts, has gone viral via email. Within days, the liberal fascists published his personal information on Twitter as a means to silence him. Fleckenstein promises legal action.
It’s easy to see why the liberals are tripping over themselves to suppress the information Fleckenstein unearthed. At its best, the information Fleckenstein culled from the bowels of the ObamaCare bill are absurd. When you really understand what the ObamaCare bill is and what Congress and Obama are trying to do with it, however, it turns from absurd to nearly terrifying.
Information has been taken from different sources for formatting purposes but verified back to Fleckenstein’s original work. Fleckenstein’s blog is here: http://blog.flecksoflife.com.
• Page 16: Private insurance will become ILLEGAL - Can't write NEW policies, and lose existing policies if you change jobs, coverage or prices!
• Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!
• Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!
• Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)
• Page 42: The “Health Choices Commissioner” will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.
• Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.
• Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.
• Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.
• Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).
• Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.
• Page 203: “The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax.” Yes, it really says that.
• Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected.”
• Page 241: Doctors: no matter what specialty you have, you’ll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)
• Page 253: Government sets value of doctors’ time, their professional judgment, etc.
• Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.
• Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.
• Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!
• Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.
• Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).
• Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?
• Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.
• Page 425: Government provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.
• Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.
• Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will dictate treatment as patient’s health deteriorates. This can include a GOVERNMENT ORDER for end-of-life plans.
• Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.
* PGs 525-620 deals with the Govt basically taking over nursing homes,long-term care facilities (think assisted living) through regulations of the facilities, the owners of sd facilities, the employees of sd facilities and even the land owners of that sd facilities reside on. Additionally as you read these 90+ pages you can come to the conclusion that any Health related svcs will be determined and rationed by the Govt for our senior citizens and others in nursing homes. This one post should do enough to raise awareness of the control the Govt is exerting over the older population of American citizens.
And there's more.. keep reading at the link above.
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| Jul 31 @ 4:41 AM |
DO YOU KNOW WHAT'S IN THE NEW HEALTH CARE BILL??? |
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Nightowl001
Posts: 7,495
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Wow! All that! That's simply amazing! Pg 59 HC Bill lines 21-24 Government will have direct access to your bank accts for electronic funds transfer
Here's what page 59 actually says: 9 ‘‘(4) REQUIREMENTS FOR SPECIFIC STAND10
ARDS.—The standards under this section shall be
11 developed, adopted and enforced so as to—
12 ‘‘(A) clarify, refine, complete, and expand,
13 as needed, the standards required under section
14 1173;
15 ‘‘(B) require paper versions of standard16
ized transactions to comply with the same
17 standards as to data content such that a fully
18 compliant, equivalent electronic transaction can
19 be populated from the data from a paper
20 version;
21 ‘‘(C) enable electronic funds transfers, in
22 order to allow automated reconciliation with the
23 related health care payment and remittance ad
24 vice; "Enable electronic funds transfers in order to allow automated reconcilliation with the related health care pament and remittance advice." That does NOT mean the government will have access to your bank account. Unless you give it to them. It means you can make your payment with your debit card. Or, like at WalMart. Written a check at Walmart? Know what an ACH funds withdrawal is? This is all that that Page 59, lines 21-24 means.
Here... See for yourself: H.R._____
Too bad people can't be bothered to check out crap like this themselves before posting a bunch of lies designed to scare the shit out of people.
By the way, see the title? H.R.______? That means THE BILL DOES NOT HAVE A NUMBER YET BECAUSE THIS ISN'T THE FINAL VERSION THAT IS GOING TO BE VOTED ON.
NOW is the time for YOU to go through the bill, see what you may not like, and contact YOUR Congressperson and tell them you don't like this or that provision.
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| Jul 31 @ 4:42 AM |
DO YOU KNOW WHAT'S IN THE NEW HEALTH CARE BILL???
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burnslikethesun
Posts: 13,027
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I checked out your link and then I compared it to the actual copy of the Health care reform bill, and low and behold what do I find, selective editing of the actual bill.
Go figure.
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| Jul 31 @ 4:43 AM |
DO YOU KNOW WHAT'S IN THE NEW HEALTH CARE BILL??? |
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burnslikethesun
Posts: 13,027
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Jinx owl, you owe me a beer.
( rootbeer)
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| Jul 31 @ 4:50 AM |
DO YOU KNOW WHAT'S IN THE NEW HEALTH CARE BILL???
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Nightowl001
Posts: 7,495
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The spin: PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Government provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in how to die.
The bill: ‘‘Advance Care Planning Consultation
6 ‘‘(hhh)(1) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the
7 term ‘advance care planning consultation’ means a con8
sultation between the individual and a practitioner de9
scribed in paragraph (2) regarding advance care planning,
10 if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual involved has
11 not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such
12 consultation shall include the following:
13 ‘‘(A) An explanation by the practitioner of ad14
vance care planning, including key questions and
15 considerations, important steps, and suggested peo16
ple to talk to.
17 ‘‘(B) An explanation by the practitioner of ad18
vance directives, including living wills and durable
19 powers of attorney, and their uses.
20 ‘‘(C) An explanation by the practitioner of the
21 role and responsibilities of a health care proxy.
22 ‘‘(D) The provision by the practitioner of a list
23 of national and State-specific resources to assist con24
sumers and their families with advance care plan25
ning, including the national toll-free hotline, the ad-
(pg 426)
1 vance care planning clearinghouses, and State legal
2 service organizations (including those funded
3 through the Older Americans Act of 1965).
"The provision by the practitioner of a list of national and State-specific resources to assist consumers and their families with advance care planning, including the national toll-free hotline, the advance care planning clearinghouses, and State legal service organizations (including those funded through the Older Americans Act of 1965)." The practitioner has to provide YOU with a list of the people who can counsel you and your family on making advance care planning decisions. That's it. That's all that says. If you don't like anyone or any office on the list, you can listen to your Aunt Millie, your mother or your German Shepard.
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| Jul 31 @ 4:53 AM |
DO YOU KNOW WHAT'S IN THE NEW HEALTH CARE BILL??? |
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Nightowl001
Posts: 7,495
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lol.. You got it, Burns. "Barkeep! A sasparilla for my friend, here! "
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| Jul 31 @ 5:04 AM |
DO YOU KNOW WHAT'S IN THE NEW HEALTH CARE BILL???
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Nightowl001
Posts: 7,495
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More spin: PG 430 Lines 11-15 The Government will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life Actual proposal being discussed:
Page 429: ‘‘(5)(A) For purposes of this section, the term ‘order
14 regarding life sustaining treatment’ means, with respect
15 to an individual, an actionable medical order relating to
16 the treatment of that individual that— Subsection B on page 430: ‘‘(B) The level of treatment indicated under subpara12
graph (A)(ii) may range from an indication for full treat13
ment to an indication to limit some or all or specified
14 interventions. Such indicated levels of treatment may in15
clude indications respecting, among other items—
16 ‘‘(i) the intensity of medical intervention if the
17 patient is pulse less, apneic, or has serious cardiac
18 or pulmonary problems;
19 ‘‘(ii) the individual’s desire regarding transfer
20 to a hospital or remaining at the current care set
21ting;
22 ‘‘(iii) the use of antibiotics; and
23 ‘‘(iv) the use of artificially administered nutri
24 tion and hydration.’’. So, "For purposes of this section, the term ‘order regarding life sustaining treatment’ means, with respect to an individual, an actionable medical order relating to the treatment of that individual that may range from an indication for full treatment to an indication to limit some or all or specified interventions. Such indicated levels of treatment may include indications respecting, among other items—
‘‘(i) the intensity of medical intervention if the patient is pulse less, apneic, or has serious cardiac or pulmonary problems;
‘(ii) the individual’s desire regarding transfer to a hospital or remaining at the current care setting;
‘‘(iii) the use of antibiotics; and
‘‘(iv) the use of artificially administered nutrition and hydration.’’"
Know what all that means? It means the advance directives you and your family decided upon, have to be followed in the form of an order written by a doctor. Without that order, you are considered a "full code," and all life-sustaining efforts are to be continued.
I don't think I need to do this with every line of this report, do I? 
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| Jul 31 @ 5:08 AM |
DO YOU KNOW WHAT'S IN THE NEW HEALTH CARE BILL??? |
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Nightowl001
Posts: 7,495
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Sorry for flooding.. but I just wanted to add:
Obviously, anybody who knows what MAY be in the new Health Care Bill, knows that the author of the original article, one supposed Larry Schweikart, is full of crap. I hope this points out what lengths the Right will go to, to lie and scare the bejeezus out of people to try to maintain the status quo.
As so often, it's a cryin' f*ckin' shame they can't debate this honestly.
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| Jul 31 @ 9:30 AM |
DO YOU KNOW WHAT'S IN THE NEW HEALTH CARE BILL???
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eastham
Posts: 7,907
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The other day, I was listening to the news on NPR. The reporter was interviewing a representative from one of the seniors' groups, which had not taken a position on any of the overall bills, but was outraged by an effort to scare people into thinking that the plans were promoting euthanasia for seniors. What the bills do is to allow (every five years) for physicians to bill for consultation to discuss end of life issues -- what does a living will mean, etc. Now, Medicare covers a one-time only consultation. The various bills would allow for the consult every five years.
I work for a cemetery. I know first hand that no one gets out of this place alive and I see the end result of failure to plan for the inevitable. Fewer than 20% of Americans have a will, and for many that will is out-of-date or inadequate. Fewer still have investigated the costs of long-term care insurance, living wills, trusts and other instruments vital in the event of death or incapacity as well as cemetery property.
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| Jul 31 @ 10:53 AM |
DO YOU KNOW WHAT'S IN THE NEW HEALTH CARE BILL??? |
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Gallows_Humor
Posts: 13,649
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so SL..... 
after seeing the truth in black and white...
are you ready to come over to the side of the righteous..??
as our side never resorts to lies to sway people's opinions...
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| Jul 31 @ 12:50 PM |
DO YOU KNOW WHAT'S IN THE NEW HEALTH CARE BILL???
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kattsmeow
Posts: 22,625
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| Jul 31 @ 1:13 PM |
DO YOU KNOW WHAT'S IN THE NEW HEALTH CARE BILL??? |
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musicianfriend
Posts: 2,269
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umm so, nothing to scary so far.
They pretty much have these powers. hell they should even adopt some of these to other programs. Help cut out fraud.
Now have you ever taken a close look at the beloved Patriot act?
DO YOU REALLY THINK WE SUPPORT THE PATRIOT ACT?
YOU STILL DONT GET IT......................BOTH PARTYS...CORRUPT TO THE CORE.
This ignorance on the left is astounding...
Your have been drinking too much flouride....
you dont even have any ounce of self survival insticnt left in you...what fools..
Its time to live OFF THE GRID....THE GOVERNMENT IS FULL OF EVIL DOERS...GODLESS FREAKS THAT VIEW US A CATTLE...NOTHING MORE THAN CATTLE...
THE GOVERNMENT IS BEING SUPPORTED BY FOOLS...FOOLS THAT WILL BE LEAD TO THE SLAUGHTER LIKE EVERYONE ELSE...WHEN THE NWO IS FINISHED 'USING YOU'....IDIOTS..
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| Jul 31 @ 1:14 PM |
DO YOU KNOW WHAT'S IN THE NEW HEALTH CARE BILL???
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SweetNapaGuy
Posts: 8,490
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See, this is the "hysteria" about which I was talking earlier. When you sound like a loon, it doesn't matter how reasonable your point is, people will dismiss you as a loon.
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| Jul 31 @ 1:18 PM |
DO YOU KNOW WHAT'S IN THE NEW HEALTH CARE BILL??? |
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musicianfriend
Posts: 2,269
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OBAMA CARE EXPOSED
WHO IS BETSY...HER CREDENTIALS
Obama care is bullshit...
Its a jail cell...a death warrant.....
Dont forget...Agenda 21..the NWO vowed to DE-POPULATE the earth...
They already did some of this....they tried to kill the blacks ..with abortion.
They killed many gays....Hepititus vaccines laced with AIDS...
You trust them? 
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| Jul 31 @ 1:23 PM |
DO YOU KNOW WHAT'S IN THE NEW HEALTH CARE BILL???
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SweetNapaGuy
Posts: 8,490
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You know that knob that goes from one to ten? It's not necessary to keep the paranoia meter cranked up to eleven all the time. Try turning it down a few notches. Don't trust everything that comes through your email, or appears on your favorite blog site. Use a little healthy skepticism.
You assume your political opponents are completely nefarious, and you assume your political favorites are completely altruistic. It's not like that in the real world. You sometimes have to accept a little weakness in your heroes, and a little virtues in your villains. Only in comic books (or really bad fiction...) are you able to make people as extremely good or bad as you seem to believe happens in reality.
Edit:
Think of it this way: There's a small possibility that you're right, and that I should be hyper-paranoid, too. But who are you going to convince?
The right-wingers on these forums, who probably subscribe to the same email newsletters and visit the same bloggers as you do? You're preaching to the choir.
The vast pool of moderates and uncommitted? When you sound like a street corner "doom and gloom" preacher, ranting about the end of the world? A "paid shill" could just come across as rational, calm, and sane, and persuade more people to the NWO way of thinking.
The way to appeal to your fellow fringers is to rant and rave. But as the rantings and ravings are shown to have flaws (e.g., in the case of the "suicide counseling"), everything else is considered suspect. Some of what you warn us about MAY be true. But people aren't going to dig through all the crap of paranoia to find the occasional pearl of truth. It's simpler to just tune you out.
[Edited on 7/31/2009 1:29 PM]
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| Jul 31 @ 1:33 PM |
DO YOU KNOW WHAT'S IN THE NEW HEALTH CARE BILL??? |
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musicianfriend
Posts: 2,269
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See, this is the "hysteria" about which I was talking earlier. When you sound like a loon, it doesn't matter how reasonable your point is, people will dismiss you as a loon.
This is a perfect example of the SHEEPLES of America..
To scared to face the facts...
To scared to face whats really happening..
Always grasping for a straw of HOPE....
If truth ...and someone trying to 'help' you see that you are creating your own demise...is hysteria to you..so be it...
You are hopeless a fool.....I feel very sorry for you...One day..when your life is totally f#@k*d...you will remember people like me..who tried to warn you..you are but fools...ignorant to the workings of gov..and evil people who possess no heart..no compassion...
THey are not compassionate..they do not care about the poor...They are using them...because they are not smart enough to figure it out...And because of the 'shiney trinkets' they offer..fools believe them...
On a brighter note...Hopefully people like me will save your underserving azz and fix this nation..and kick out the freaks in government...BOTH PARTIES!
They kicked God out...
Now .....we have a Godless Government...There are no protections for humanity anymore....humans making the rules...with no foundation...only what they feel for the day...Plotting the death of others...
The liberals have fell for every trick that was put upon them...Beleiveing every lie without question..Blind foolish loyalty..
.Dictators and evil people love your kind...BLIND loyalte..Your expecting a pat on the back for a job well done..but will only receive a knife in your backs when they are done with you.......you will be 'exterminated' like the other 'useless eaters'....(useless eaters....words used by Agenda 21..the NWO.)
This crap has happened time and time again...and yet....some dont learn the lessons of history....amazing.  
Amazing you can support this sort of thing...utterly amazing..and frightning....frightining to see such foolish foolish voters..
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| Jul 31 @ 1:39 PM |
DO YOU KNOW WHAT'S IN THE NEW HEALTH CARE BILL???
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SweetNapaGuy
Posts: 8,490
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Whom do you think most people would be willing to believe? The homeless guy on the corner, ranting and raving about how the alien anal probe stuck a tracking device in his brain, and how the pigeons are plotting to make humans build more statues, and the squirrels and the oysters are planning on crossbreeding...?
Or the average guy who's kind of skeptical about yet another conspiracy theory, and explains their points in a calm, rational, reasonable voice?
Mind you, I'm not asking which one YOU'D believe. We've already seen how you'll treat innuendo and supposition as if it were fact. I'm just saying, to the average person, you're the person displaying an unhealthy obsession with the sex lives of squirrels and oysters...
Now, if you'd be so kind as to lay off the pro forma insults...? I've offered you constructive criticism. I'm willing to concede that there might be a kernel of truth in your rantings. Unfortunately, you've layered lie after misunderstanding after innuendo over whatever minuscule truth is in there.
If you want to "sell" your message, come across as someone who's believable and rational and calm, not someone who's to be avoided, medicated, and possibly fitted for a special jacket.
Edit: Just look at Lacy. She's as much a conspiracy theorist as you are, but she manages to come across as rational, reasonable, and calm. I'm skeptical of her conspiracy theories, but she at least doesn't come across as a raving paranoid.
[Edited on 7/31/2009 1:48 PM]
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| Jul 31 @ 1:45 PM |
DO YOU KNOW WHAT'S IN THE NEW HEALTH CARE BILL??? |
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Loreli
Posts: 25,398
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So...
wanting to be a good AMERICAN and support any President, do our best, get involved FOR THE GOOD OF THE COUNTRY makes people "sheeples"?
Gotcha.
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