| Aug 16, 2009 @ 9:41 PM |
Dr. Stephen Hawking enters the National Health Care Debate!
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uab_5
Posts: 4,819
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The Huffington Post said:
In an editorial on July 31, Investor's Business Daily warned of end-of-life counseling in health care reform by saying people like Stephen Hawking "wouldn't have a chance" in the such a system.
People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless.
In fact, Professor Hawking lives in England, where he has been treated by their National Health Service. And by his own account, it saved his life.
"I wouldn't be here today if it were not for the NHS," he told The Guardian. "I have received a large amount of high-quality treatment without which I would not have survived."
The Hawking reference in the IBD editorial has since been removed, with this correction added: "This version corrects the original editorial which implied that physicist Stephen Hawking, a professor at the University of Cambridge, did not live in the UK." They don't acknowledge that the NHS has kept Hawking alive there.
BTW my lil'bro's office is the the same building as Dr. Hawking!
Leave to Redcoats to have uncommon common sense! 
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| Aug 16, 2009 @ 10:53 PM |
Dr. Stephen Hawking enters the National Health Care Debate! |
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Gallows_Humor
Posts: 14,229
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. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090813/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_end_of_life.....But there will be no "death panels" under the legislation being considered. In fact, the provision in the bill would allow Medicare to pay doctors for voluntary counseling sessions that address end-of-life issues. The conversations between doctor and patient would include living wills, making a close relative or a trusted friend your health care proxy, learning about hospice as an option for the terminally ill, and information about pain medications for people suffering chronic discomfort. The sessions would be covered every five years, more frequently if someone is gravely ill. The American Medical Association and the National Hospice and Palliative Care Organization support the provision. ...The issue is no longer viable for the six members of the Senate Finance Committee — three Republicans and three Democrats — working on a bipartisan bill, according to Grassley. In a statement, he criticized the House bill, saying there was a difference between a "simple education campaign, as some advocates want," and paying "physicians to advise patients about end-of-life care." The provisions remain in the House bill. |
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| Aug 16, 2009 @ 11:00 PM |
Dr. Stephen Hawking enters the National Health Care Debate!
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SweetNapaGuy
Posts: 8,963
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And a big thanks out to the Republicans. They've just made the end of life much harder for seniors. Hurray for "compassionate conservatism," screwing over the weak and defenseless yet again...
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| Aug 16, 2009 @ 11:35 PM |
Dr. Stephen Hawking enters the National Health Care Debate! |
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Nightowl001
Posts: 7,912
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but.. but.. Napa... that's what they do.
It's symptomatic of how low the tone of the debate has gotten that IBD printed such a screwed up opinion piece from an author who didn't know that Hawking is a British citizen.
Increasingly, almost every single bit of opposition to healthcare reform proposals warns of dire provisions that aren't in the proposals.
When Bush was in office, running up trillions of dollars of debt, the conservatives spent many millions of dollars trying to convince people that, just like under Saint Ron-The-Senile, deficits don't matter. Now, when that is the biggest argument against the principal healthcare proposals, it's not much of an argument for them. They "nullified the jury" before the case came to court.
I'm still wondering why they haven't figured out just how stupid Rove and Cheney, and Co., really are, to get them into this predicament. Unfortunately, as has been said, no one ever went broke underestimating the public intelligence. A populace that idolized Joe-the-Plumber-not and a pitbull with lipstick, enjoying a steady diet of Whose Got Talent and American Idol, have lost the skills to read and think for themselves. Many of them are of the mistaken notion that "if they say it on TV or radio, it has to be true! If it wasn't true, they would be fined. Or sued. Or something!" All politicians lie, but convicted substance abusers only tell the truth?
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| Aug 17, 2009 @ 9:55 AM |
Dr. Stephen Hawking enters the National Health Care Debate!
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Loreli
Posts: 25,617
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The conversations between doctor and patient would include living wills, (have been doing it here for years) making a close relative or a trusted friend your health care proxy, learning about hospice as an option for the terminally ill,(Have done for at least a year) and information about pain medications for people suffering chronic discomfort.(been doing at least 3 years)
I did some reading, and I guess I never thought of the VA hospital/physician system as socialized medicine. But then, I never deal with them!
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| Aug 17, 2009 @ 10:13 AM |
Dr. Stephen Hawking enters the National Health Care Debate! |
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Gallows_Humor
Posts: 14,229
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exactly Lori..
the brouhaha....is about doctors being able to bill for these services...rather than making doctors provide them...along with...the big lie - to tell sick people that they should just die rather that be treated...as it will cost the taxpayer too much money... 
 don't insurance companies already do just this ( deny treatment because of cost )???
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| Aug 17, 2009 @ 10:22 AM |
Dr. Stephen Hawking enters the National Health Care Debate!
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Loreli
Posts: 25,617
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We have at least one free clinic here, that doctors and nurses volunteer their time to run Along with "regular" volunteers to do phone, reception, filing, cleaning.
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Hospitals still handle severe emergencies and surgeries.
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| Aug 17, 2009 @ 10:40 AM |
Dr. Stephen Hawking enters the National Health Care Debate! |
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Josuha
Posts: 1,254
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Would'nt Hawking have had Medicare under our SS system here being disabled?
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| Aug 17, 2009 @ 12:24 PM |
Dr. Stephen Hawking enters the National Health Care Debate!
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musicianfriend
Posts: 2,603
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Looks like putting flouride in the water worked...these advocates of Obama care are blind and stupid.
Dont forget..one day..you will be old too..If this passes..I wish I could see your face when its your turn.. 
Did you ever think about this...if you dont have 'the right friends.." or the 'right views'....you could be in trouble in a system thats ran like a Nazi death camp..
Who lives ...who dies...all decided by a mere human...
How unenlightened you all are...pathetic excuses for American citizens..a people who were born into a free nation..and think that because they have a liberal communist education that your smart... I think college has also dumbed down America...It seems so....that diploma has made more people in this nation stupid..and blind..believers in fantasies...Easily tricked and decived...How stupid to do this to our country..how freaking stupid...
Your Stepford wives...unable to think for yourselves..
People who arent strong enough to live in a free society..They want that tit it their mouth for substance..The tit of the Government..their MOMMY AND DADDY..
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| Aug 17, 2009 @ 12:29 PM |
Dr. Stephen Hawking enters the National Health Care Debate! |
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SweetNapaGuy
Posts: 8,963
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MF, you believe "groupthink" is research. Just because a bunch of uninformed individuals are repeating the same thing (which all originates from the right-wing leadership, so it's pretty much "cut-and-paste" rhetoric), doesn't mean it's correct.
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| Aug 17, 2009 @ 12:39 PM |
Dr. Stephen Hawking enters the National Health Care Debate!
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Heaveninawildflower
Posts: 19,133
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Dont forget..one day..you will be old too..If this passes..I wish I could see your face when its your turn..
Young or old, your turn will come...that's guaranteed. As noted above, Hawking made out just fine with a national health care system, but I suspect that most of us will do better with one than we would without anything but private health care. Not many of us are guaranteed lifetime benefits, and even those of us who believe we are may well be in for a rude awakening as cost skyrockets to the point where it's putting corporations in the position of dropping the benefits or going out of business.
If you're among those who don't believe in accepting the government's tit, just say no. No cash for clunkers, Social Security or Medicare, just work till you drop, if you can find work. You'll still have to contribute towards it for others, and of course we all thank you very much. These aren't freebies, those of us who work are all contributing to them. I personally have no problem with helping those who can't help themselves, either permanently or temporarily, but that's me.
Would'nt Hawking have had Medicare under our SS system here being disabled?
Joshua - he would have had Medicaid, not Medicare, but truthfully from my own experience with my son in his younger days, probably not the quality of care he received through National Health in Britain.
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| Aug 17, 2009 @ 12:46 PM |
Dr. Stephen Hawking enters the National Health Care Debate! |
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Loreli
Posts: 25,617
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Looks like putting flouride in the water worked...these advocates of Obama care are blind and stupid.
Dont forget..one day..you will be old too..If this passes..I wish I could see your face when its your turn..
Did you ever think about this...if you dont have 'the right friends.." or the 'right views'....you could be in trouble in a system thats ran like a Nazi death camp..
Who lives ...who dies...all decided by a mere human...
How unenlightened you all are...pathetic excuses for American citizens..a people who were born into a free nation..and think that because they have a liberal communist education that your smart... I think college has also dumbed down America...It seems so....that diploma has made more people in this nation stupid..and blind..believers in fantasies...Easily tricked and decived...How stupid to do this to our country..how freaking stupid...
Your Stepford wives...unable to think for yourselves..
People who arent strong enough to live in a free society..They want that tit it their mouth for substance..The tit of the Government..their MOMMY AND DADDY. 
I'm working with 3 people right now on parts of this health care plan. We don't see ANYBODY thrilled with it, but also are taking our concerns to our Reps, state and nation wide.
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| Aug 17, 2009 @ 1:03 PM |
Dr. Stephen Hawking enters the National Health Care Debate!
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musicianfriend
Posts: 2,603
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Hawkings is a mere pawn...There are 100 to his one who say socialized medicine sucks..
MF, you believe "groupthink" is research. Just because a bunch of uninformed individuals are repeating the same thing (which all originates from the right-wing leadership, so it's pretty much "cut-and-paste" rhetoric), doesn't mean it's correct
Isnt that what you are doing as well> Group think? The questions is this....what facts support the truth..
Socialized meds are not that well received from what I hear...and some from other countries right here in MD have testified to that fact..but you dont seem to hear them..instead..you BLINDLY trust the FAUX pieces put up in the media for your consumption..
Why is Soros haveing to pay people to protest for Obama Care? My side doesnt pay for protesters..
The liberals are but liars and cheats...Cant they just stand on their own two feet?
ANytime money comes into play..it can BUY ALOT OF FALSE LOYALTY...thus projecting a very incorrect picture..Thats not right...
Thats perverts whats really going on with the people..the electorate..
If you have to pay and cheat to win...that DESTROYS the system of this nation and we will be no better than Mogadesha...the Sudan....Chaves...Castro...despots and tyrannt societies..
Is this what we want to become? Evolve backwards...Becoming less civilized and more hedonistic..uncivilized?
Why is this gov. so sneaky? Is Obama qualified?..
Why does the Cash for Clunkers program have hidden in the small print that you will be giving control of your computer to the gov...BOTH DOMESTIC AND FOREIGN!!! Foreign? Who would that be...United Nations? Probably...Why...DO YOU EVER QUESTION YOUR PARTY EVER FOR THE THINGS IT DOES? ANTI AMERICAN ACTIVITIES.. Do you ever ever question anything? Are you even Americans? Does this not bother you? Or do you blindly sheeple like just go alot with it..? Never questioning anything? YOu are destroying your own country..and too blind to see it..
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| Aug 17, 2009 @ 1:05 PM |
Dr. Stephen Hawking enters the National Health Care Debate! |
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Loreli
Posts: 25,617
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| Aug 17, 2009 @ 1:14 PM |
Dr. Stephen Hawking enters the National Health Care Debate!
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SweetNapaGuy
Posts: 8,963
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It would be nice if MF could stick to one topic at a time, rather than running through a couple dozen in the span of a hundred words...
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| Aug 17, 2009 @ 1:19 PM |
Dr. Stephen Hawking enters the National Health Care Debate! |
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Josuha
Posts: 1,254
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Joshua - he would have had Medicaid, not Medicare, but truthfully from my own experience with my son in his younger days, probably not the quality of care he received through National Health in Britain.
Then what makes you think if there was a national Health Care here it would be any better?
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| Aug 17, 2009 @ 2:54 PM |
Dr. Stephen Hawking enters the National Health Care Debate!
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CPUfan
Posts: 7,983
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What's good about the NHS in the UK is that it provides a safety net for people who cannot afford health care insurance. It also helps people like Hawking to become well-known without having any money. It helped him to thrive in life. He is now one of the greatest scientists alive.
What's better than UK socialised medicine? Well it's the fact that it is supplemented by insured medicine such as BUPA - and by completely private medicine. Just like the US mixed system of private, insured and medicare treatment.
The UK Conservative who recently spoke out against the NHS on Fox News was comparing the previous, totally nationalised or socialised system with the kind of system they had in Eastern Europe. Neither the current UK nor Eastern European systems are of that kind any longer, they all have the UK type mixed economy version - a public and private partnership of both socialised and insured medicine.
If you want free healthcare in the UK, you have to stand in lines. If you are a medical priority, you get immediate treatment. So that, the less of a problem you have, the longer you wait.
Anyone can jump the lines at any time by buying insurance (with different inclusions which make it cheaper or more expensive) or by going totally private - which is much more expensive.
BTW Hawking didn't enter the debate himself. He was 'pushed in on his wheelchair' by IBD, a US business daily looking for arguments against a public health care service. He has absolutely nothing to do with the US debate on health care. He didn't even ask to be involved in it. But he did benefit greatly from the NHS in his life and career. He would never have been able to seek fame or affluence without it.
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| Aug 17, 2009 @ 3:04 PM |
Dr. Stephen Hawking enters the National Health Care Debate! |
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Nightowl001
Posts: 7,912
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Hawkings is a mere pawn... Hawking is without question one of the top minds in the world. One of the less-than-endearing things about him is that he is well aware of it. If you had troubled to learn anything about him, you would never describe him as a pawn of anyone.
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| Aug 17, 2009 @ 3:08 PM |
Dr. Stephen Hawking enters the National Health Care Debate!
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Heaveninawildflower
Posts: 19,133
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Then what makes you think if there was a national Health Care here it would be any better?
I don't know obviously, but I still believe it's better than nothing, and for many people that's what it would be. You live off the grid - what sort of health care do you think would be available to you if you were no longer able to physically labor as you do now?
Hawkings is a mere pawn...There are 100 to his one who say socialized medicine sucks..
How does any of that make him a pawn??????? He was a 21 year old student when he as diagnosed with ALS and given three years to live. He's currently 67 and has this to say about it: As for the other 100, who are they and where are THEIR quotes? You throw numbers around with absolutely no regard for their accuracy.
"I wouldn't be here today if it were not for the NHS," he told us. "I have received a large amount of high-quality treatment without which I would not have survived."
How many of our 300 million citizens aren't covered by private insurance? Not everyone agrees, but here are some estimates collected by the Coalition for National Health Care:
How Many Americans Are Uninsured?
Several studies estimate the number of uninsured Americans. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, nearly 46 million Americans, or 18 percent of the population under the age of 65, were without health insurance in 2007, their latest data available.1
The Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality, using the Medical Expenditure Panel Survey (MEPS) estimated that the percentage of uninsured Americans under age 65 represented 27 percent of the population. According to the MEPS data, nearly 54 million Americans under the age of 65 were uninsured in the first-half of 2007. 2
A recent study shows that based on the effects of the recession alone (not job loss), it is projected that nearly seven (7) million Americans will lose their health insurance coverage between 2008 and 2010. 3 Urban Institute researchers estimate that if unemployment reaches 10 percent, another six (6) million Americans will lose their health insurance coverage. Taking these numbers together, it is conceivable that by next year, 57 to 60 million Americans will be uninsured.
The Urban Institute estimates that under a worse case scenario, 66 million Americans will be uninsured by 2019. 4
Nearly 90 million people – about one-third of the population below the age of 65 spent a portion of either 2007 or 2008 without health coverage.5
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| Aug 17, 2009 @ 3:13 PM |
Dr. Stephen Hawking enters the National Health Care Debate! |
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eastham
Posts: 8,097
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After going after Hawkings (and getting it wrong), the IBD then stated that everyone else in Britain with Motor Neurone Disease or any other debilitating, heritable disorder is being denied care. That statement prompted a response from the Motor Neurone Disease Association of Britain that their families are receiving excellent care, thank you very much. I remember from my DC days where the care described by patients with epidermolysis bullosa in Britain was superior to that in the US. Their bandages were paid for (in the US, families of children with EB pay out tens of thousands of dollars per year for bandages and antibiotic ointments), they received regular visits from the visiting nurse service (not here), and no one ran into a lifetime cap on care (which happens regularly in the US for patients with expensive, chronic disorders).
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