| Sep 9 @ 10:21 PM |
The Presidents Joint Congress Address.
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burnslikethesun
Posts: 13,027
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Do you think it was enough?
If you were one that was in doubt and against his health care plan has your opinion changed? has your concerns been address?
If so or not how and why?
For me, I was never against his plan before. What has happened was the wish wash he was starting to show. I was pleased to see he re rooted himself.
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| Sep 9 @ 11:14 PM |
The Presidents Joint Congress Address. |
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Jankia
Posts: 11,892
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Do I think it was enough?
 He repeated his pledge that the proposal, which would cost $900 billion over 10 years, would not increase the budget deficit. Would that pledge be in line with....
"When there is a bill that ends up on my desk as the president, you the public will have five days to look online and find out what's in it before I sign it," State Children's Health Insurance Program signed 3 hrs after congress presented it.
$787 billion stimulus bill passed one day after congress passed it.
Want me to get into his earmark reform pledge and his pledges concerning abortion?
Anyway since you asked If so or not how and why? when my concerns are addressed concerning his faulty past pledges thats how I evaulate any of his pledges from his short history as President.
This is off topic but how about Afghanistan...wasnt it him who asked "What’s the endgame?" Afghanistan's faltering democracy and virtually inept military leave that "endgame" in serious doubt.
Just like the rest of us he hasnt any idea.
Remind anyone of 1968?
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| Sep 10 @ 12:17 AM |
The Presidents Joint Congress Address.
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southernlass
Posts: 2,211
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I enjoyed the President's speech and I'm for health care reform in that I feel that universal health care is a must for this country -- I'm just not certain what the best way to go about getting this is, but it looks as if he's attempting to approach this in a bi-partisan fashion, and I think this is mandatory to the success of the venture.
Personally, every human life is precious from my perspective and money should not be a factor in granting every life the basics needed for preventative care and catostrophic healthcare coverage, along with some kind of decent dental coverage as well.
I kind of like the way the President outlined the plan tonight for the government public option, which would be for those who couldn't afford or didn't want the other private options.
What I liked the most is that those who couldn't afford even the lower cost coverage, would still be covered, somehow.. I think this is important.
I must say, I wasn't exactly proud of the way the Republicans acted during the speech; they behaved in a rather boorish fashion, poo pooing everything and grimacing at most of his rhetoric. These are all of our government representatives and I don't appreciate them behaving rudely or inappropriately on national television to the president of the United States; it's just not showing proper decorum and it's wrong and no one appreciates that, if they're being honest with themselves. We have only this one system and these guys need to respect it. They are supposed to be setting an example for the American people.
The Republicans are going to have to work this out with our President and the Democrats, like it or not. If they throw a hammer into the works and prevent this from coming to fruition, it's going to irritate me when it comes time to vote, and I'll remember that they screwed things up. Healthcare is simply too important to mess around right now with the usual party antics and bs..
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| Sep 10 @ 1:24 AM |
The Presidents Joint Congress Address. |
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katydid438
Posts: 8,019
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The Republicans are going to have to work this out with our President and the Democrats, like it or not. If they throw a hammer into the works and prevent this from coming to fruition, it's going to irritate me when it comes time to vote, and I'll remember that they screwed things up. Healthcare is simply too important to mess around right now with the usual party antics and bs.. ...amen Sista (and I'm a Canadian  )
I must say, I wasn't exactly proud of the way the Republicans acted during the speech; they behaved in a rather boorish fashion, poo pooing everything and grimacing at most of his rhetoric. ..I noticed that too...giving the benefit of the doubt, I'm sure many of them as human beings, had to be impressed...but they can't let their personal feelings show 
The options will be there for all to make a choice..but the main thing is that ALL will have health care access and benefits if they choose.
Not to get anyone pissed off,,but,,I have never understood how a powerful nation like the USA has been so involved with world issues, and has never taken care of the basic issue of health care............time to spend money on the citizens I say before there is no one left to fight the wars to keep us free
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| Sep 10 @ 11:35 PM |
The Presidents Joint Congress Address.
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bardnsage
Posts: 1,171
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Do you think it was enough?
If you were one that was in doubt and against his health care plan has your opinion changed? has your concerns been address?
If so or not how and why?
No.
I have not changed my mind.
My concerns were not addressed. In fact,,, I have more now.
For instance,,,
1. All insurance carriers will have to carry you even with your pre-existing conditions. OK,,, fine. Understand,, the cost of everyone's premium will go up as a result. It changes the entire actuarial formula used. Let's say,,, Timmy smokes crack,,, Timmy smokes tobacoo,,, Timmy doesn't exercise,,, etc. etc. etc. Timmy comes to my company when he has cancer,,, and I have to issue him a policy. The only way I can do that,,, and keep my balance sheets black so I can pay for little Susie's heart transplant,,, is to charge EVERYONE MORE FOR THEIR COVERAGE.
2. No canceling a policy when someone gets sick. AGREED. It was a contract,,, it was always contract,,, and backing out when a claim comes in is wrong. So on this point, I agree.
3. All insurance compaines will have to provide medical benefits with no cap on payouts. OK,,, fine. Again,,, costs will go up for everyone. Insurance carriers have always offered a NO CAP product. However,,, no one wants to pay this much,,, and they roll the dice that they will not get "That Sick",,,, and they elect the cheaper policies. So,, by rolling this into every single policy,,,, every single policy will go up. Just call your car insurance agent,,, and find out how much a policy will cost when you don't cap the policy at 500K or 1mil,,,,, and you elect to cover at "NO CAP".
4. Insurance compaines to pay a tax on large policies. Well,,,,, this is just a new tax. But it will fly because the whole speach demonized the insurance industry from the get go. Let's talk about all the millions of people,,, who have been sick,,, been injured,,, and racked up thousands and thousands of dollars in medical payments,,,, only to walk away paying only their yearly max retained co-payments.
5. "We are going to pay for this by elminated the waste and fraud in the system."
All kididng aside,,,, if this is going to generate the funds to pay for this,,, he needs to do it now.
AND THE SUCCESS HE CAN SHOW,,, OF CLEANING UP MEDICAID AND MEDICARE,,, WILL GO A VERY, VERY, VERY,,,,, LONG WAY TO CONVINCING ME THAT GOVERNMENT CAN HANDLE THE REST OF THE MEDICAL SYSTEM.
Let the administration consider cleaning up medicare and medicaid,,, the BETA TEST for their plan. Again,, it requires no bill, it requires no vote,,,, and the POTUS has to complete authority to do this.
SO far,,, all I see,,,, is a smoke and mirrors game to generate money,,, either through taxes,,, or by increased insurance premiums on every single person who pays for insurance,,,, A HIDDEN TAX.
It appears the legacy of this administration is....
SPINAL TAP.
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| Sep 11 @ 2:58 PM |
The Presidents Joint Congress Address. |
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Nightowl001
Posts: 7,494
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Let's talk about all the millions of people,,, who have been sick,,, been injured,,, and racked up thousands and thousands of dollars in medical payments,,,, only to walk away paying only their yearly max retained co-payments. Let's talk about what a fuzzy number "all the millions" are and question where you get the idea there are millions to begin with.
A recent study found that 62 percent of all bankruptcies filed in 2007 were linked to medical expenses. Of those who filed for bankruptcy, nearly 80 percent had health insurance.
According to another published article, about 1.5 million families lose their homes to foreclosure every year due to unaffordable medical costs. Health Insurance CostsJanuary 3 2008: 12:17 PM EST
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The number of Americans filing for consumer bankruptcy increased by nearly 40 percent in 2007, according to the American Bankruptcy Institute.
In a report released Thursday, the ABI said that the number of overall consumer bankruptcy filings reached 801,840 last year, compared to 573,203 in 2006. 2007 Bankruptcies I think there is a good deal more evidence for the fact that in the last 10 years ":many millions" have lost their homes and been forced into bankruptcy because of medical expenses than there is that the insurance companies have covered catastrophic costs for "many millions" of people.
Incidentally, catastrophic injuries (",,, been injured,,, and racked up thousands and thousands of dollars in medical payments,,,, ") almost never fall under the purview of your health insurance. It is predominantly someone's business or auto insurance that winds up shouldering that cost. If you or someone else is injured in your home, it is likely your homeowners insurance that will pick up the costs of that accidental injury, rather than your health insurance. There are few cases where your health insurance becomes the primary payer for a catastrophic accident that would cost "thousands and thousands of dollars."
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| Sep 11 @ 3:51 PM |
The Presidents Joint Congress Address.
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MotownManiax
Posts: 9,737
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^^^ Absolutely, Night.
The problem of rising premiums and more bankruptcies will only grow larger if "nothing" is done and the status quo is maintained.
I will leave it up to the Republicans to negotiate honestly with the Dems and get a healthcare plan that is fair, equitable, and lowers cost.
The Dems also have problems within their own party about what's the best approach, but hopefully party leaders will do everything they can to mitigate dissent and reach consensus.
Obama has left the door open for a bi-partisan bill. Let's see if the GOP is up to the challenge, or will they continue to sabotage and poison the debate with partisan politics and selfish, narrow idealism.
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| Sep 11 @ 4:01 PM |
The Presidents Joint Congress Address. |
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Jankia
Posts: 11,892
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I think there is a good deal more evidence for the fact that in the last 10 years ":many millions" have lost their homes and been forced into bankruptcy because of medical expenses than there is that the insurance companies have covered catastrophic costs for "many millions" of people.
Both insurance companies covering catastrophic costs and large medical expenses combined dont reflect the real reason for bankruptcy.
Who was it that that helped file lawsuits against banks on behalf of ACORN in order to force banks to give loans to people that couldnt pay them back?
One of the same guys that suppressed President Bush's attempt to investgate and rein in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
Barack Obama
Who doubled-down on Jimmy Carters Community Reinvestment Act which forced banks to lower there standards so unqualified people could get a mortgage by greatly lowering mortgage standards even more to unqualified borrowers?
Bill Clinton
Who threatened legal action to the banks that didnt give loans to unqualified borrowers?
Janet Reno
Who made $90 million in bonuses over 5 years falsifying Fannie Mae financial reports?
Frankklin Raines
Who also suppressed Republican attempts to rein in the corruption of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
Senator Chris Dodd and Congreesman Barney Frank
Anyone that wants our government to control our healthcare system doesnt know it but what will eventually come next is government control of the care we receive.
Ok..so if some people like Socialism they will also like the bill being proposed that would give Obama the ability to shut down the internet in the event of an "emergency".
Great! This administration allready "controls" much of our mainstream news networks.
Whats the next best way to prevent opposition to Socialism?
Figure it out...its simple.
When Obama sees us organizing,using the internet as a means for opposition,they have only one choice.
Call it an emergency and shut it down.
What we need in this country is a Citizens Joint Congress Address. 
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| Sep 12 @ 6:05 PM |
The Presidents Joint Congress Address.
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bardnsage
Posts: 1,171
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Owl,,, I like fuzzy numbers. Like the
A recent study found that 62 percent of all bankruptcies filed in 2007 were linked to medical expenses. Of those who filed for bankruptcy, nearly 80 percent had health insurance.
This is not a study,,, or a hard number,,, it's a fuzzy made up number from the National Health Care Now or whatever web page,,,, but,,, even that does not say that health insurance or lack of health insurance was the cause of bankruptcies. It said,,, of the people who filed for bankruptcy,,, 80% had health insurance.
Bankruptcy is not caused by insurance compaines. In fact,, insurance companies have probably prevented more bankruptices than they have caused. You just had a major health procedure,,, (and I hope you are doing well by the way,,,,),,, what would it have done to your personal finances if you had to pay for it out of pocket? (don't answer please,, ,this is just to make a point)
Who's kid has broken a major bone,,, who has had to have an MRI,,, who has given birth for heavens sake. Did you pay for it out of pocket? What if you had to pay for it out of pocket? Would you be able to,,, or would you have to file bankruptcy?
Bankruptcy is caused by having to much debt. No doubt if you have lots of medical bills,,, you might have to file bankruptcy. But of the (HUGE POPULATION YOU ARE PORTRAYING AS FILING BANKRUPTCY FROM INSURANCE COMPAINES,,,
what would you guess is the amount of those same people who have,,, say,,,,
------ CREDIT CARDS.
Now,, of that same number,,,, how many of them do you think might have,,,
------ LOST THEIR JOB.
I think these are probably to two biggest single factors in bankruptcy.
If you are really hard and fast,,, that the insurance compaines have caused these people to go bankrupt,,, and that they do not help people,,,
"WHY IS THE PRESIDENT'S PLAN A GLORIFIED INSURANCE PLAN?"
Is he just as stupid as me,,, or is his goal to bankrupt the nation as the fringe right are portraying?
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| Sep 13 @ 3:36 AM |
The Presidents Joint Congress Address. |
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daisy315
Posts: 4,946
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62 % of bankruptcies because of medical costs?... I find that highly unlikely.. most folks that can't afford the hospital bills just don't pay them, your house and car cannot be taken from you if you don't pay your hospital bill.. I know that's the case in my area.. the ER's here cannot turn you away because of inability to pay or having no insurance, granted you may not get elective surgeries done without insurance.. ..
they file bankruptcy because they HAVE NO JOBS.. .
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| Sep 13 @ 4:01 AM |
The Presidents Joint Congress Address.
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Nightowl001
Posts: 7,494
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I find that highly unlikely.. most folks that can't afford the hospital bills just don't pay them, your house and car cannot be taken from you if you don't pay your hospital bill.. I know that's the case in my area.. the ER's here cannot turn you away because of inability to pay or having no insurance, granted you may not get elective surgeries done without insurance.. ..
they file bankruptcy because they HAVE NO JOBS.. They file bankruptcy to get out from under judgements obtained by the collection agencies for the healthcare agencies. Here in Kansas, if they get a judgement against you, they can up to once per month, order your bank to empty your accounts and send everything to the collection agent, and they can garnish up to 50% of the gross of every paycheck. I don't know what garnishment and attachment laws are in other states, but here, if you had to have, say, $50,000 worth of hospital stay and procedures, and you make $30,000 a year, you may find yourself trying to live on around $10,000 after taxes and garnishments, for maybe as long as 4 years (counting interest). Can you imagine working 40 hours a week, making $15/hour at a factory job (Cessna, in Independence, Kansas, pays about $13/hour for floor people), for 4 years, and taking home less than $200 a week? And, of course, still trying to pay your mortgage and car payment and utilities and general costs of living. And that is assuming that whatever catastrophe brought you to the point of needing this expensive medical treatment has actually been relieved enough that you CAN work 40 hours per week after that. A lot of these bankruptcies are not filed by people who are unemployed. But by people whom the current policies do not protect from being left with that as their only reasonable option.
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| Sep 13 @ 4:19 PM |
The Presidents Joint Congress Address. |
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bardnsage
Posts: 1,171
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That scenario you paint is indeed grim Owl,,,,
however,,,
if you pay your medical bills,,, at say $20 a month, (no matter what your minimum payment is),,,,, it will prevent the medical bills from hitting your credit, or getting any judgements against you.
If you just plain ignore them,,,, well,,, you can get the judgements.
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| Sep 13 @ 8:30 PM |
The Presidents Joint Congress Address.
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southernlass
Posts: 2,211
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I will leave it up to the Republicans to negotiate honestly with the Dems and get a healthcare plan that is fair, equitable, and lowers cost.
This healthcare plan needs to cover everyone equally. EVERYONE. I'm not sure how it's going to be paid for, but I don't really care how. I'm simply tired of seeing people go without proper health care because they can't afford it.
There are no lives better than others in this country. Every single human being in this country needs access to the same healthcare that President Obama is getting, and I don't care how we get it or if we all have to pay substantially more taxes to get it; it's not humane or even human to turn one's eyes away from the suffering of our fellow Americans.
That public health option should not be squashed because the poor need it and they can't afford to pay when they are struggling already. Healthcare for the poor is the whole point of making this legislation; there is just no compromising on this ...
Any kind of compromise that doesn't take the poor into account makes the entire legislation moot. We already have millions without health insurance, who can't afford it. If we're not going to address the needs of these, let's just blow the whole thing off entirely because we're missing the point.
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| Sep 13 @ 9:26 PM |
The Presidents Joint Congress Address. |
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lacyvsq
Posts: 6,161
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I don't care how we get it or if we all have to pay substantially more taxes to get it; it's not humane or even human to turn one's eyes away from the suffering of our fellow Americans.
It is noble for you to approve of whatever tyranny it takes to extort money from your friends and neighbors to alleviate the suffering of....
So what are we going to do about our fellow Americans who are imprisoned at a rate higher than any other country in the world? Are we going to continue to turn our eyes away from them?
That public health option should not be squashed because the poor need it and they can't afford to pay when they are struggling already.
The poor are already covered by Medicaid.
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| Sep 13 @ 10:28 PM |
The Presidents Joint Congress Address.
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SweetNapaGuy
Posts: 8,471
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whatever tyranny it takes to extort money
Yes, what terrible tyranny. Why, just today, while the government wasn't conducting a campaign of death squads to ferret out and exterminate opposition, I came online to find someone complaining about how horrible this country is, how much they abuse and oppress their citizens. As I sipped my coffee, while the government wasn't engaged in a genocidal war on its own citizens, I found out that someone considered our government to be a terrorist organization.
I'm sure glad that I survived yet another day, without the government dragging me out of my house to never be seen or heard from again. It was something I truly feared would happen...
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| Sep 13 @ 11:47 PM |
The Presidents Joint Congress Address. |
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southernlass
Posts: 2,211
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The poor are already covered by Medicaid.
I'm one of the poor and I'm not covered.
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| Sep 13 @ 11:51 PM |
The Presidents Joint Congress Address.
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Jankia
Posts: 11,892
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I'm one of the poor and I'm not covered. Hey SL,let me in who your free internet provider is. 
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| Sep 13 @ 11:57 PM |
The Presidents Joint Congress Address. |
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kattsmeow
Posts: 22,625
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 I forgot it was on.
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| Sep 14 @ 12:15 AM |
The Presidents Joint Congress Address.
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southernlass
Posts: 2,211
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Hey Jank..
Hey SL,let me in who your free internet provider is.
My internet comes with my phone. It's 25 bucks a month. That's a heck of a lot different than paying three to five hundred dollars a month for health coverage and then finding out that preventative care isn't covered, that I can't even get a mammogram unless I'm already diagnosed with cancer, and a host of other absurdities that I won't bore you with.
It is ridiculous that other countries have better healthcare for their citizenry than we do. We're willing to help the poor and police the world, but we're not willing to take care of our own American citizens? It's no longer the dark ages and it's time to offer everyone reasonable healthcare as a right, not a luxury. If this is "socialized medicine," then I want some of it.
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| Sep 14 @ 12:36 AM |
The Presidents Joint Congress Address. |
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lacyvsq
Posts: 6,161
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it's time to offer everyone reasonable healthcare as a right, not a luxury.
You already have the right. It is called responsibility. Assume it.
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