| Oct 6 @ 9:24 AM |
At what point does Capitalism become a con game?
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Bj864
Posts: 3,964
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There have been a lot of things going on in this country for years that we knew nothing about. What I don't understand is why this stuff is legal.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/05/business/economy/05simmons.html?pagewanted=3&_r=1
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| Oct 6 @ 7:20 PM |
At what point does Capitalism become a con game? |
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Paralegal_at_Law
Posts: 5,872
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This video series attempts to demonize the free market practice of individuals investing their savings and in a communistic manner desires to criminalize the profit motive.
Naturally Precision Thinkers see right through this red propaganda that LIberals eagerly embrace because they are in fact the "useful idiots" that the Communists rely upon to stampede the general public to embrace the criminalization of their own accumulation of savings for investment purposes.
The NY Times and their radical leftists can be relied upon the produce this kind of drek because they are useful idiots.
Useful idiots embrace the notion that we can all become comrades in a worker's paradise when we criminalize the profit motive and outlaw the private ownership of property. Notice how the video portrays sellers as being evil?
Buying and owning in the private sector are constitutionally protected rights and any law that is enacted to the contrary will not survive a court challenge, even when Liberal useful idiots who do not comprehend what it means when the US Constitutions says that no property can be taken for a public purpose without compensation to the owner, control the House, the Senate, and the White House.
Come on Leftists, you are getting negligently easy to rebut with such thinly veiled communistic propaganda as is proposed in the OP of this thread; but then again, I have on a continuum intellectually defeated the "usual suspects" on the political left who have so many times attacked me with their threadbare and politically unsound logic, Again. And again. And again.
The Premier Precision Thinker's viewpoint
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| Oct 6 @ 7:40 PM |
At what point does Capitalism become a con game?
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SensualGemini
Posts: 6,924
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BJ: There have been a lot of things going on in this country for years that we knew nothing about. What I don't understand is why this stuff is legal.
...BJ, if you could, would you please explain what you find as negativity from your link?
...These are traded stocks and as such, nobody is forced to trade or maybe a better term is to legally gamble, but rather they can put their savings in the bank, which is insured by FDIC, which may or may not be there if a severe run is made.
...After all, it is just paper, the same as that dollar in your purse. People decide what items of tangibility this paper can be traded for.
PS: Capitalism becomes a "con game," when monopolies are allowed to control a total economy with government endorsement.
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| Oct 6 @ 8:07 PM |
At what point does Capitalism become a con game? |
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lacyvsq
Posts: 6,173
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Obviously you guys did not read the article...
Private investors buy a company, issue debt, pay themselves back all the purchase price plus... then leave a worthless company -- virtual theft from the debt holders...some of course who get bailed out by government -- another thief!
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| Oct 6 @ 8:25 PM |
At what point does Capitalism become a con game?
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SensualGemini
Posts: 6,924
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Lacy: Obviously you guys did not read the article...
Private investors buy a company, issue debt, pay themselves back all the purchase price plus... then leave a worthless company -- virtual theft from the debt holders...some of course who get bailed out by government -- another thief!
...The issued debt is in the form of stocks and if you don't buy the stocks, not a problem for you.
...But yes, I remember well the World Com and Enron BS as well. They flat azz lied on their SEC filings.
...Nevertheless, stocks and options are not for the faint of heart, while you can purchase insurance in the form of straddles, offsets, options, etc. But for most people, most stock "investors," all they know is a long position and while blinded with nothing more than personal greed, dumber than a box of rocks and soon fleeced.
...Oops... the debt was financed in bonds and bank loans... and what financial institution or individual bought these bonds, or who rated them? Same deal, different name and cover thy butt by the same means, or stay away from the gamble.
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[Edited on 10/6/2009 8:40 PM]
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| Oct 6 @ 8:49 PM |
At what point does Capitalism become a con game? |
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lacyvsq
Posts: 6,173
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It rather belies the term 'bond' when the intent all along is to loot the company and leave the debtors holding the bag.
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| Oct 7 @ 10:09 AM |
At what point does Capitalism become a con game?
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Bj864
Posts: 3,964
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My opinion is still the same. It is all a big con game that got intensly worse through the Bush years. This is the VERY reason that our National debt has gone through the roof. More con games The very cons (investors/gamblers) that played the game ended up getting our tax dollars to get out of the mess they created with the banks etc.
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| Oct 7 @ 10:28 AM |
At what point does Capitalism become a con game? |
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Always_Striving
Posts: 8,794
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When it has share holders and political lobbyists.
Let the corruption begin.
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| Oct 7 @ 10:35 AM |
At what point does Capitalism become a con game?
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Nightowl001
Posts: 7,506
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Shareholders = people who add no value to a company but demand a profit from it. And you think "liberals" think they're "entitled"?!?
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| Oct 7 @ 3:55 PM |
At what point does Capitalism become a con game? |
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Bj864
Posts: 3,964
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Shareholders are an elite term for gambling on whether the value of a company goes up or down. Actually our entire economy is pretty much built on gambling.
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| Oct 7 @ 4:04 PM |
At what point does Capitalism become a con game?
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lacyvsq
Posts: 6,173
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Actually our entire economy is pretty much built on gambling.
Yes, and the house always wins...particularly since they have guns...
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| Oct 7 @ 6:01 PM |
At what point does Capitalism become a con game? |
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Bj864
Posts: 3,964
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You are correct. It doesn't even matter if WE have guns. They are always going to have the most power.
The notion that we can protect ourselves from the government if we have guns is nothing but a pipe dream.
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| Oct 7 @ 8:13 PM |
At what point does Capitalism become a con game?
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Say_Yes
Posts: 2,226
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Shareholders = people who add no value to a company but demand a profit from it. And you think "liberals" think they're "entitled"?!?
Shareholders = the owners of the company. If the owners don't deserve the profit, then who does?
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| Oct 7 @ 8:33 PM |
At what point does Capitalism become a con game? |
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burnslikethesun
Posts: 13,027
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Obviously you guys did not read the article... What the hell does that have to do with anything? Haven't ya notice? They always know what they are talking about, even when they don't know what they are talking about.
Husband, "Honey come in here and look at the coffee table I just put together."
Wife enters room with smile, "Looks good dear, did you read the instructions?"
Husband," No need dear, it was to easy, after all it is just a table. "
Wife as she leaves the room, "It is suppose to be a book case."
Shareholders = the owners of the company. If the owners don't deserve the profit, then who does?
I found the response to this on Kenneth Lay's desk,
f*** 'em.
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| Oct 8 @ 2:07 AM |
At what point does Capitalism become a con game?
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Say_Yes
Posts: 2,226
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I found the response to this on Kenneth Lay's desk,
f*** 'em. Thanks for reminding me, why I quit posting in this forum. There are a few people on here, who can and do actually want to discuss issues. Unfortunately, they are in an extreme minority. I have tried to be one on them, but seriously, why bother? I give up.
[Edited on 10/8/2009 2:31 AM]
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| Oct 8 @ 3:28 AM |
At what point does Capitalism become a con game? |
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SweetNapaGuy
Posts: 8,526
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Say_Yes: But that was exactly what Kenneth Lay et al did. They enriched themselves at the expense of the shareholders, the employees, and their customers.
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| Oct 8 @ 3:35 AM |
At what point does Capitalism become a con game?
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newlife2006
Posts: 860
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I believe the answer is rather obvious : at the point when when "fair game" becomes "free market" , where "free" transforms into "free from rules/laws/regulations". Game needs rules/ regulations/ referies - otherwise
it hardly is neither "game" nor "fair".
"Profit motive" ( a.k.a. "greed" ) - which is the core of capitalism is not good and not bad , it can be a "progress engine" if channeled in right direction by rules and regulations - or , if left on it's own becomes desructive force ( BTW, the same applies to just about any natural force , like fire ,or human sexual energy for this matter , which is necessary and useful , unless runs uncontrolled and unregulated ). Attempting to "demonize"/ outlaw /ban any of those natural forces can hardly bring any positive results , but going to the opposite extreme , letting any of those forces of human nature run "free" , inevitably results in disaster. Which, unfortunately, we all wittness now in our country... 
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| Oct 8 @ 4:14 AM |
At what point does Capitalism become a con game? |
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burnslikethesun
Posts: 13,027
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Thanks for reminding me, why I quit posting in this forum. There are a few people on here, who can and do actually want to discuss issues. Unfortunately, they are in an extreme minority. I have tried to be one on them, but seriously, why bother? I give up. So what ya saying is, if you don't like what you see you b!tch moan and whine then pack and leave?
Dude throw your hissy fit all you want. That's your right. As others have the right to post as they pretty much wish.
I was agreeing with ya. For f*** sakes. But don't think for a single moment anyone gives a rats ass if you post or not. You have the ability to skip over whatever you wish not to read do you not?
Thanks for reminding me how childish you act. 
"fair game" becomes "free market" sounds right to me.
which is the core of capitalism is not good and not bad
It's when just enough becomes not enough which really is the line that crosses over on the too much. Too much of anything is never good.
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| Oct 8 @ 4:55 AM |
At what point does Capitalism become a con game?
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Nightowl001
Posts: 7,506
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Shareholders = the owners of the company. If the owners don't deserve the profit, then who does? Sorry, Say_Yes, but how about the people who actually add the profitability to the company? The people who add value to the product by building/assembling/producing the product. Call it "pollyanna," but I actually believe they deserve a bigger slice of the pie than the person who does nothing but reap the profits without any other input into the company whatsoever. I've worked for more than one company in the past (but never will again) that offered "stock participation programs." That is, as an employee, I could use part of my pay (an expense of the company) to purchase shares and become a part owner to share in the "profits." It didn't take me long to decide that if I was working there, I deserved some share of the "profits" without having to risk what little they were paying me to begin with, because without me (representing any employee doing the actual labor), they would not be making a profit.
In large companies, small "investors" (shareholders) who own only a few shares of millions of shares of stock are not adding any value whatsoever to the company, except to artificially increase the perceived demand to share in the profits of said company, without actually contributing anything else in any way. "OOh, look. I have $100 dollars and I can buy a share of the profits of someone else's labor without having to do anything else!" And then these selfsame people, who did not labor, added no value, bitch and whine and complain that the government wants to tax them, or labor wants a bigger share of the pie, and that either of those are "stealing" what those shareholders "worked" for. And then they point at those people who do the labor, whose very sweat they are profiting from, and laugh at them for being so stupid, and characterizing them as "lazy asses who pay no taxes and sit around with their hand out."
It may be legal, but no fvckin' way that is morally right.
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| Oct 8 @ 11:56 AM |
At what point does Capitalism become a con game? |
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Bj864
Posts: 3,964
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To me, it should be illegal to do a lot of things that have and are being done, in the name of capitalism. The reason it is not regulated properly is because our "elected" officials are getting donations (really kickbacks) from them or they are involved in it themselves.
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