| Oct 22, 2009 @ 1:39 PM |
Interracial couple in Louisiana denied marriage license
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eastham
Posts: 8,145
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In this case he declined to act as an agent of the state... He did not act as an agent of the state to infringe on their right to marry, rather he suggested that they find another agent to perform the marriage.
Mr. Bardwell took an oath to exercise his office without personal prejudice. He failed to do so. He overtly refused to marry them, because they were of two different races. That Mr. Bardwell can pretend he isn't a racist and hide behind his "piles and piles" of black friends is truly pathetic.
A formal complaint has been made to the Louisiana Judiciary Commission. Under Louisiana State law, the Commission makes a recommendation to the Louisiana Supreme Court. It will be up to the Court to determine if Bardwell can keep his job. The Commission can compel witnesses to appear, subpoena documents, etc. Should Bardwell refuse to cooperate, the Commission can consider his conduct in recommending sanctions to the LA Supreme Court.
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| Oct 22, 2009 @ 1:58 PM |
Interracial couple in Louisiana denied marriage license |
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lacyvsq
Posts: 6,799
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A formal complaint has been made to the Louisiana Judiciary Commission.
On recommendation of the Judiciary Commission, the Supreme Court may censure, suspend with or without salary, remove from office, or involuntarily retire a judge for willful misconduct relating to his official duty, willful and persistent failure to perform his duty, persistent and public conduct prejudicial to the administration of justice that brings the judicial office into disrepute, and conduct while in office which would constitute a felony, or conviction of a felony. http://www.lasc.org/la_judicial_entities/judiciary_commission.asp
Anyone can bring a complaint...
Unless there is a law somewhere that states that performance of marriage is a duty, the Commission does not appear to have jurisdiction in this matter.
Should Bardwell refuse to cooperate, the Commission can consider his conduct in recommending sanctions to the LA Supreme Court.
Wow! We are really presupposing a lot here aren't we?
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| Oct 22, 2009 @ 2:04 PM |
Interracial couple in Louisiana denied marriage license
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Nightowl001
Posts: 8,214
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Lacy said:
What law? I posted this a few pages back. The situation has not changed. 42 U.S.C. ยง 1981 : US Code - Section 1981: Equal rights under the law
(a) Statement of equal rights
All persons within the jurisdiction of the United States shall
have the same right in every State and Territory to make and
enforce contracts, to sue, be parties, give evidence, and to the
full and equal benefit of all laws and proceedings for the security
of persons and property as is enjoyed by white citizens, and shall
be subject to like punishment, pains, penalties, taxes, licenses,
and exactions of every kind, and to no other.
(b) "Make and enforce contracts" defined
For purposes of this section, the term "make and enforce
contracts" includes the making, performance, modification, and
termination of contracts, and the enjoyment of all benefits,
privileges, terms, and conditions of the contractual relationship.(c) Protection against impairment
The rights protected by this section are protected against
impairment by nongovernmental discrimination and impairment under
color of State law. Assuming SG's point is valid, and that they had marriage license in hand, part of which by that then contract with the state of Louisiana says they may have a JP marry them, his refusal to do so based on grounds of race alone is a violation of this section of the code. He clearly admitted that he denied them the "enjoyment of all benefits, privileges, terms and conditions of the contractural relationship" that he would have provided for any uniracial couple. |
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| Oct 22, 2009 @ 2:24 PM |
Interracial couple in Louisiana denied marriage license |
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lacyvsq
Posts: 6,799
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A state statute says justices of the peace may perform marriage ceremonies, but it does not require such officials to do so, Tammi Arender, a spokeswoman for the Louisiana attorney general, told CNN on Monday.
To push for Bardwell's removal, the McKays must look to the Louisiana Supreme Court.
Justices of the peace in Louisiana are elected, but the state's high court has jurisdiction over whether they can keep their jobs, Louisiana Supreme Court spokeswoman Valerie Willard said. The Judiciary Commission, a judicial body independent of the Supreme Court, has the power to review a case and make recommendations to the high court.
After receiving a complaint, the Judiciary Commission would determine whether the grievance was frivolous. Anyone can file a complaint; no attorney is needed, Willard said, though Beth McKay said she has retained one.
The commission would proceed with an investigation if there were allegations of ethical misconduct, or arguments that the justice of the peace was in violation of professional responsibility, Willard said.
An investigation could take months or even a year, Willard said. And with closed-door hearings and records of investigations kept confidential, it's hard to tell how long the average investigation lasts. A lawyer from the Office of the Special Counsel, a branch of the commission, would prosecute the elected official, who would have an opportunity to defend himself.
During the investigation, if the prosecutor could show the official was hindering the fair and due implementation of his job, the commission could suggest that the Louisiana Supreme Court enact a temporary suspension with pay. Barring such an incident, the justice of the peace could continue to oversee cases throughout the commission's confidential investigation.
If the nine-member commission, by majority decision, decided the official acted unethically, it would recommend sanctions to the court. Those recommendations and the commission's findings would be public.
Willard could not say whether Bardwell would be brought to the commission or what its decision would be.
"It's up to the judges to interpret the law," she said.
If Bardwell were brought before the commission and it decided against him, recommended sanctions could include a public censure, suspension with or without pay, or removal.
The court, after reviewing the commission's findings, could follow the commission's suggestions or opt for stronger or weaker sanctions. Or the seven-member court could decide the justice of the peace did not behave unethically, which would allow him to keep his job, Willard said.
*********************
He clearly admitted that he denied them the "enjoyment of all benefits, privileges, terms and conditions of the contractural relationship" that he would have provided for any uniracial couple.
No, he didn't. He admitted that he denied the couple his time and (private) services. They were never denied the "enjoyment of all benefits, privileges, terms and conditions of the contractural relationship".
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| Oct 22, 2009 @ 2:55 PM |
Interracial couple in Louisiana denied marriage license
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Nightowl001
Posts: 8,214
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No, he didn't. He admitted that he denied the couple his time and (private) services. Yes. Thus denying them "all" benefits. That statement doesn't mean that he has to deny them all the benefits in toto before he is in violation, but denying any one benefit of a contract based on race alone is a violation of the law.
And since his only authority to marry them comes from his public office, any such service is performed as a function of his office, not as a private act. As a private citizen, he has no authority to marry them.
I don't know how many times I can say it, but there is absolute.ly is no difference at between this and telling them "We don't serve your kind here!" As soon as he said "I won't marry them because he's black and she's white," was when he ran afoul of the law.
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| Oct 22, 2009 @ 5:29 PM |
Interracial couple in Louisiana denied marriage license |
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BandTMom
Posts: 39,515
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Lacy said:
No one is saying that blatant discrimination is okay -- or at least I am not.
And neither am I, but the JP is perfectly within his rights to refuse to do something that violates his moral and ethical code as we ALL have the right to do.
We may not agree with a person's moral code, but we should defend their right not to have to seel themselves out when they can pass the job to someone else.
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| Oct 22, 2009 @ 5:37 PM |
Interracial couple in Louisiana denied marriage license
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arieann
Posts: 2,388
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I dont see how anyone could be forced to sign any kind of contract if they did not want to sign it.
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| Oct 22, 2009 @ 5:45 PM |
Interracial couple in Louisiana denied marriage license |
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SensualGemini
Posts: 7,545
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Night: And since his only authority to marry them comes from his public office, any such service is performed as a function of his office, not as a private act. As a private citizen, he has no authority to marry them.
...It is not a guaranteed function of his office, but rather he may perform the function and for about $10 in fees (taxes), you can do the same, can perform as the celebrant from the church side, to conclude the marriage with the state side of a government issued permission slip called a contractual marriage license.
...Maybe you are missing your true calling and can name your church the 'Asnostic Church of America.'
...Nevertheless, there are at least two regular posters in this forum that can perform the same function, whereas both were at the last Indiana MD gathering and one did perform as the celebrant to the state issued marriage license to complete the marriage.
...To recluse one's self from performing an obligated function, let alone an optional function, has been available to all judges, even the Supreme Court justices, for seemingly forever. Bardwell, as a JP, has quite limited powers and yes, he is a judge of sorts, but "parking tickets" are not exactly high profile cases and no different than obtaining a minister's license through the mail, he may perform as a celebrant, but no obligation to do so.
...Once again, if bias, bigotry, racism, etc. were illegal by the individual's voluntary actions, everyone would be incarcerated.
========
East: Mr. Bardwell took an oath to exercise his office without personal prejudice. He failed to do so. He overtly refused to marry them, because they were of two different races. That Mr. Bardwell can pretend he isn't a racist and hide behind his "piles and piles" of black friends is truly pathetic.
...Prejudices are allowed, expected and a judge, any judge may recluse their self by same from an obligated function, let alone a voluntary function, that they are not obligated, nor paid to do.
Your bias and bigotry precedes you...
...After all, our very President and wife are racists, bigots and perform the highest office in the nation. Sitting in the front pew of the racist Rev. Wright for 20 years is voluntary acceptance, thus condoning, while referencing someone as "whitey," is racism.
...Yet, you and the liberals voted these racists into the White House, which concludes the liberal viewpoint of racism is discretionary by what they are, or will receive and a hypocrisy in itself. After all, even receiving 97% of the black vote was still a minority in the liberal vote.
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Imp: Or... is it okay for blacks (or other races) to discriminate against whites?
...It is and has been done 'legally' through preferential treatment for 45 years or so, at the cost of $Trillions to the taxpayer and rampantly continues today.
=======================
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| Oct 22, 2009 @ 8:41 PM |
Interracial couple in Louisiana denied marriage license
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Angel54214
Posts: 19,005
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I'm just curious how Sottomayor would handle the Supreme Court case...
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| Oct 23, 2009 @ 12:55 AM |
Interracial couple in Louisiana denied marriage license |
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SensualGemini
Posts: 7,545
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Angel: I'm just curious how Sottomayor would handle the Supreme Court case...
...Oh, I doubt if it ever makes it there. Although our judicial system is flooded with cases, only the Supreme Court hears far less cases than it did a 100 years ago.
...That is, unless Obama jumps in there, but from his own books, his own speeches, he could only further endorse Bardwell's position that children from interracial marriages suffer more.... all the whining and crying he did about his childhood.
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| Oct 23, 2009 @ 10:43 AM |
Interracial couple in Louisiana denied marriage license
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Bj864
Posts: 4,238
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And neither am I, but the JP is perfectly within his rights to refuse to do something that violates his moral and ethical code as we ALL have the right to do.
So then would it be ok if he refused to allow them to come into his place of business?
Would it be ok if the bank officer refused them a bank loan?
Would it be ok if the schools refused to allow the children to attend?
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| Oct 23, 2009 @ 11:07 AM |
Interracial couple in Louisiana denied marriage license |
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BandTMom
Posts: 39,515
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We are talking about individuals.
A bank is not an individual.
A school is not an individual.
However, a private business has the right to refuse service to anyone. Haven't you seen the signs?  My MIL had one in her BBQ cafe but I never saw her exercise the right.
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| Oct 23, 2009 @ 11:10 AM |
Interracial couple in Louisiana denied marriage license
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PollyPureheart
Posts: 76
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BTM: the JP is perfectly within his rights to refuse to do something that violates his moral and ethical code as we ALL have the right to do.
Wha? We do NOT have that right.
Religious "believers" must still do their duty and Kill in a war for their Country.
I must still rent a house to some never-married Skank with 3 kids by 3 different Dad's.
My credit card company can keep raising my interest rate arbitrarily.
The consequences for not performing one's duty as legally required, irrespective of one's moral and ethical codes, are onerous...for a reason.
edit: Restauranteur's may have that sign, but it's mostly unenforceable if their reason's for refusing services have no legal basis. You still can't discriminate on the basis of Race, Physical ability, etc.
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| Oct 23, 2009 @ 11:30 AM |
Interracial couple in Louisiana denied marriage license |
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arieann
Posts: 2,388
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You still can't discriminate on the basis of Race
Tell that to the Congressional Black Caucus Foundation.
Congressional Black Caucus
Membership is exclusive to African Americans
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| Oct 23, 2009 @ 11:43 AM |
Interracial couple in Louisiana denied marriage license
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PollyPureheart
Posts: 76
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Tell that to the Congressional Black Caucus Foundation.
Racism exists?! OMG, somebody tell the President!
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| Oct 23, 2009 @ 12:02 PM |
Interracial couple in Louisiana denied marriage license |
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BandTMom
Posts: 39,515
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Wha? We do NOT have that right.
Of course we do. This is still a free country/
Religious "believers" must still do their duty and Kill in a war for their Country.
No they don't. For one thing...they don't have to enlist. The last I heard, there wasn't a draft in this country.
I must still rent a house to some never-married Skank with 3 kids by 3 different Dad's.
No you don't. You can sell the house of lesve it empty. You don't HAVE to rent it.
My credit card company can keep raising my interest rate arbitrarily.
What does this have to do with individual rights?? 
The consequences for not performing one's duty as legally required, irrespective of one's moral and ethical codes, are onerous...for a reason.
As pointed out earlier, the JP MAY marry people. he doesn't HAVE to.
edit: Restauranteur's may have that sign, but it's mostly unenforceable if their reason's for refusing services have no legal basis. You still can't discriminate on the basis of Race, Physical ability, etc.
A privately owned business still has the right to refuse service to anyone. They may be hounded and even sued because of it. They may lose customers and even their business because of it, but they still have the right to refuse something that violates their ethical and moral code.
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| Oct 23, 2009 @ 12:21 PM |
Interracial couple in Louisiana denied marriage license
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SimplyImp
Posts: 1,159
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Ahhh yes, Mom... just like MD has the right to ban a poster, regardless of race, color, creed, etc., delete posts and lock threads.
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| Oct 23, 2009 @ 12:46 PM |
Interracial couple in Louisiana denied marriage license |
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PollyPureheart
Posts: 76
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I speak to the CONSEQUENCES for doing only as your mores' and beliefs dictate. Of course, you can go kill someone, but I bet you don't want to suffer the CONSEQUENCES.
Historically regards war. We have had the draft and if one is drafted, they have to follow orders and if they don't there are CONSEQUENCES. Even if one is not drafted, yet joins voluntarily (or accepts a position of employment with the Gov't, which I assume is what the JP did), you still have to follow orders or face CONSEQUENCES.
PP: My credit card company can keep raising my interest rate arbitrarily.
BTM: What does this have to do with individual rights??
It has to do with USERY laws. Unfortunately they don't exist anymore, but it is MORALLY reprehensible (in my opinion) to gouge people when they are in most need. The company makes an offer, I accept, then they change the initial agreement (which they have every Right to do if you read the itty bitty fine print in the contract). Doesn't make it morally right, but by my mores', I have to pay my obligation or suffer the CONSEQUENCES.
You made a sweeping comment generalizing individual rights versus the rights of all others. Do as you wish. Just be ready to suffer the CONSEQUENCES as the JP will.
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| Oct 23, 2009 @ 12:52 PM |
Interracial couple in Louisiana denied marriage license
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SimplyImp
Posts: 1,159
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You made a sweeping comment generalizing individual rights versus the rights of all others. Do as you wish. Just be ready to suffer the CONSEQUENCES as the JP will.
And he has already said that he has no issue with whatever consequences arise. Seems like there are some here who want to predict the consequences, have already "hung" him, and isn't he innocent until PROVEN guilty?
And no, racism is not acceptable, by ANYONE, white, black, red, yellow or green - but he has a right to his beliefs, no matter how reprehensible anyone finds them.
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| Oct 23, 2009 @ 12:58 PM |
Interracial couple in Louisiana denied marriage license |
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burnslikethesun
Posts: 13,112
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You best get running
You were laving for your swap meet like a half hour ago.
Dont want to be late do you.
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