| Mar 29, 2006 @ 10:43 AM |
Muslims don't even respect their own constitution
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t_h_e_b_r_a_t
Posts: 386
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http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pri&dt=060329&cat=news&st=newsd8gl9ag8a&src=ap
KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) - Afghanistan's parliament demanded Wednesday that the government prevent a man who faced the death penalty for abandoning Islam for Christianity from being able to flee the country. "
He was offered assylum in Italy but they won't let him go, even after their government has stated that if the courts released him, the sicko people would murder him anyway. Seems the only way this is every going to end for this one man is when he is inevitably murdered by these animals.
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| Mar 29, 2006 @ 11:27 AM |
Muslims don't even respect their own constitution |
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bryan2992
Posts: 688
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From what I understand the idea is his gov can say hey we didnt give him the death sentence we let him go, knowing that the minute he walks in public he is done for..This being what his gov wants anyway
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| Mar 29, 2006 @ 12:47 PM |
Muslims don't even respect their own constitution
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MrMikey
Posts: 108
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So perhaps the title of the thread should have been "Afghans don't even respect their own constitution" as opposed to Muslims? Or maybe more appropriately the title should have been related to a serious attempted violation of this mans human rights due to ambiguities in the Afghan legal system? But that wouldn't generate as much comment, now would it?
It's seems to me that this is an internal Afghan issue which has nothing to do with Muslims elsewhere in the world. Does the Muslim population of America not respect the American constitution? As far as I'm aware Mulims in my own country respect our constitution.
The other problem here is that this is a government put in place by the American government, a regime supported by the West, and a constitution created in consultation with the West. From reading the AP article and others, I think there are more complex issues at play here, issues which are probably being kept out of the public domain.
For example, the outcry from Muslim members of parliament about him leaving the country seems to be related to the fact that the court initially stated that he was mentally fit to stand trial, and then dramatically changed their mind, stating that he was mentally ill, after international pressure. Naturally, people are upset that outsiders are influencing their legal system and rightly so.
There's no doubting that this man does not deserve to die, and that he should be allowed to practise his beliefs freely, but the world is not that simple and I would imagine the moderate elements of the Afghan regime probably have to appease elements within the government there in order to maintain stability within the country. This government is made up of warlords, extreme clerics, etc...so things are not as simple as they might appear.
Seems the only way this is every going to end for this one man is when he is inevitably murdered by these animals.
Who are the animals? The Afghan regime (supported by the West), or Muslims in general? If, like so many other threads, it is Muslims in general you are referring to, then you are incorrect.
I also think you mentioned somewhere else that if you had an opportunity to meet a decent Muslim you would take it, but that you doubted you ever would. I would suggest you visit your local mosque and talk to the people there, express your opinions and see what they have to say. I think they'll change your views. And there are plenty of mosques in the US, so it shouldn't be a problem.
As a final point...this man is now in Italy.
Oh, and sorry for the long reply... 
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| Mar 29, 2006 @ 2:13 PM |
Muslims don't even respect their own constitution |
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LipGlossQueen9
Posts: 10,088
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the brat....the man was granted asylum. go to cnn.com, it'll tell you.
the things you are saying, not just on this thread, but on others, are quite offensive. i have been debating four five years and there have only been about two other times when i have been so personally offended. before you judge muslims like this i suggest you make friends with a few of them.
[Edited on 3/29/2006 2:48 PM]
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| Mar 29, 2006 @ 4:22 PM |
Muslims don't even respect their own constitution
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Lunaymar37
Posts: 96
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I've recently met someone near me who is muslim and she is soooo sweet, such a gentle soul, with a gentle disposition, I couldn't ask for more. I don't drive and have a child, she is the only one that's offered me help aside from my close by neighbor since I don't drive and in times have needed it. She never fails to ask me if I need anything...yet we are so different.
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| Mar 30, 2006 @ 11:39 AM |
Muslims don't even respect their own constitution |
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t_h_e_b_r_a_t
Posts: 386
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I did hear that the man finally escaped, and was glad.
"So perhaps the title of the thread should have been "Afghans don't even respect their own constitution" as opposed to Muslims? Or maybe more appropriately the title should have been related to a serious attempted violation of this mans human rights due to ambiguities in the Afghan legal system? But that wouldn't generate as much comment, now would it? "
Whatever. But since their constitution is so filled with islamic law, kinda splitting hairs here.
"the things you are saying, not just on this thread, but on others, are quite offensive."
So you are offended by words? They are putting out a lot worse than I am, and at least I am not looking to murder anyone for anything. THAT is what I find offense and beyond defense. And for the record, I do know some, vaguely. Why get to know someone and befriend them when they are spouting their anti american sentiments, which they are, which is why I walked away and just stopped listening. That is my personal experience, nothing that came from media etc. Too bad luna's friend isn't here. Always said that there is an exception to every rule, BUT I HAVEN'T MET IT YET. I would really LIKE someone to show me a different side of these people, and would WELCOME it. I would really like someone to make the whole "religion" NOT look so ugly. But even the posts in here just make things look worse. Usually, the posts defending them are just slams at the people who say what they see.
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| Mar 30, 2006 @ 3:31 PM |
Muslims don't even respect their own constitution
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MrMikey
Posts: 108
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The point I have been trying to get across though, is that there is more to it than what you see. Unforuntately we only see the bad stuff. I've been out in the Middle East and there is a lot more to that part of the world and it's people than what makes the headlines.
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| Mar 31, 2006 @ 5:53 AM |
Muslims don't even respect their own constitution |
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WickedWench
Posts: 1,613
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there is a lot more to that part of the world and it's people than what makes the headlines.
But that would mean travelling outside your own backyard and having an open mind so you could "see" what it's like elsewhere.
Something more people should do. 
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| Mar 31, 2006 @ 7:22 AM |
Muslims don't even respect their own constitution
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Lovely1368
Posts: 112
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Some of us have GONE and SEEN. And it is very ugly. But that is all I will say. Apparently there are people who just don't want to deal with the truth, so they keep putting up big smoke screens to justify the unconscionable.
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| Mar 31, 2006 @ 8:28 AM |
Muslims don't even respect their own constitution |
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tezra
Posts: 195
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Wondering when people who haven't seen for themselves will stop defending this evil. I suppose in insulated parts of the country they don't encounter as many cultural differences as in larger cities.
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| Apr 1, 2006 @ 11:46 PM |
Muslims don't even respect their own constitution
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sealacamp
Posts: 3,151
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because I just do not think it is our job, as one nation, to be the moral authority on issues like this. these nations are sovereign nations and should be allowed to decide how they wish to govern themselves.
There in lies the essence of the problem. "They" are not deciding how to govern themselves. A few dictatorial sorts are doing it for the masses. There is no freedom there and to attempt to imply that there is any is a severe error. How exactly it should be handled is something that each of us must decide on our own, but to delude ones self with erreroneous information does not bring about an understanding of the true nature of the situation in "these" countries. In order to gain some insight it is necessary to live there or at the very least know some people that have lived there, where ever there may happen to be. There are things that happen on a regular basis in "these" places that we, in the west, are insulated from.
S
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| Apr 2, 2006 @ 7:48 AM |
Muslims don't even respect their own constitution |
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WickedWench
Posts: 1,613
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[QUOTE] In order to gain some insight it is necessary to live there or at the very least know some people that have lived there, where ever there may happen to be[QUOTE]
Then it's justified? Is that what you're inferring? 
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| Apr 2, 2006 @ 10:20 AM |
Muslims don't even respect their own constitution
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MotownManiax
Posts: 7,881
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I understand both sides.
Some don’t want America to be the World’s Policeman, others see gross injustice (people that are suffering and abused are just that, no matter the cultural/religious “distinctions”) and want to do something about it.
Ok, what’s the criterion for intervention then? What’s been our guiding force? To me, it’s been circumstances involving American economic and national security interests.
This is nothing new. Countries throughout history have intervened in global affairs for their own version of these interests, so it should not come as a shock to anyone that a country as large and powerful as the US has and is actively involved in these kinds of global matters.
Over history, some countries have done it strictly in the name of conquering. Others have done it out of necessity and self-preservation -- i.e., a state attacks threatening neighbors preemptively, before they in turn were invaded. Still others have been to secure trading routes or colonial rights for economic expansion.
Wars have been fought, territories have been absorbed, and empires have been built to these ends. This is the history of the human condition. To ignore or pretend it hasn’t or doesn’t happen is just being blind to reality.
First of all, we are not global policemen. That would mean getting involved militarily in any and all conflicts that occur in the world, and there are way too many to count, always have been. The cost of “real” global intervention would bankrupt and morally break us. No, we have always picked and chosen “where” we’ve gotten involved, and more times than not this has been directly influenced by economic, political, and national security considerations.
As for the specific case of American intervention in world events; this country, for the most part, has never been a conquering nation. In fact, Americans have traditionally loathed getting involved in world affairs. So much so our isolationism brought us to the table very late in two world wars, which is something we've corrected in our foreign policy over the past 60 years, usually for the better (destroying Communism as a global threat should be quite enough, to start with).
We are not a bloodthirsty people bent on world domination -- past examples: the Roman Empire, Nazi Germany, or global Communism -- and never have been. The distinction is critical.
We now face a global war against terrorism, where, due to technology and instantaneous global reach, there are no “borders” or military opponents to engage in the traditional sense. To fight this war takes neverending imagination, energy, fortitude, and willpower. I just hope the American people, as a unified nation, are up for it.
[Edited on 4/2/2006 10:26 AM]
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| Apr 2, 2006 @ 10:48 AM |
Muslims don't even respect their own constitution |
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sealacamp
Posts: 3,151
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Then it's justified? Is that what you're inferring?
I don't believe that what I said or inferred. What I am saying is that there are an inordinate number of posts here that draw certain conclusions based on a lack of understanding. Therefore those conclusions are incomplete and inaccurate.
Justification comes from 3000 dead innocent people and there is no further justification needed. If you need more then you do not understand what the issue is in this case.
S
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| Apr 2, 2006 @ 11:02 AM |
Muslims don't even respect their own constitution
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t_h_e_b_r_a_t
Posts: 386
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"There in lies the essence of the problem. "They" are not deciding how to govern themselves. A few dictatorial sorts are doing it for the masses."
But didn't they just ELECT these "few"? That implies that the people do support their actions.
" There is no freedom there and to attempt to imply that there is any is a severe error. How exactly it should be handled is something that each of us must decide on our own, but to delude ones self with erreroneous information does not bring about an understanding of the true nature of the situation in "these" countries. "
From this you imply that although there are millions of people there, they are too cowardly to stand up to a "few". Certainly can't respect that, or feel any kind of pity. I think your arguments intending to defend them are actually making things worse.
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| Apr 3, 2006 @ 7:45 PM |
Muslims don't even respect their own constitution |
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sealacamp
Posts: 3,151
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But didn't they just ELECT these "few"? That implies that the people do support their actions.
Whhhhhhhoooooooooosssssssssssshhhhhhhhhh. Right over the head again. The region in general and the history of that region reflects what I stated. Not one particular country that is fighting for freedom. That is an isolated incident from the rest of the world in that area, really in most of the world in general. If you microfocus on any particular thing you can make it what ever you want it to be. However it may not be reality.
From this you imply that although there are millions of people there, they are too cowardly to stand up to a "few". Certainly can't respect that, or feel any kind of pity. I think your arguments intending to defend them are actually making things worse.
Worse or better it is the truth. Be it what it may. I am not trying to defend or condemn anyone I am merely looking at the situation in that area from an objective poisition.
There once was a group that sang:
Find the cost of freedom
Buried in the ground
Mother earth will swallow you
Lay your body down
And so it is
S
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| Apr 3, 2006 @ 9:48 PM |
Muslims don't even respect their own constitution
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suzieq0808
Posts: 1,080
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Whhhhhhhoooooooooosssssssssssshhhhhhhhhh. Right over the head again.
That was rude and uncalled for. Is that how they teach Christians to talk to people?
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| Apr 3, 2006 @ 10:27 PM |
Muslims don't even respect their own constitution |
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WickedWench
Posts: 1,613
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sealacamp
If people are not "understanding" your perspective, and that would seem to be the case, perhaps explaining it in a different way or using an analogy would be effective.
That would be far more effective
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| Apr 4, 2006 @ 1:28 AM |
Muslims don't even respect their own constitution
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RareQuestor
Posts: 1,506
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By now it has gotten to the point where seeing is believing. IF I ever see a peaceful muslim, I will believe there is one. Still hasn't happened to date, but I have seen and heard a lot of the azzhole ones.
Pardon me, but I seem to recall that just recently you were complaining about other people stereotyping all Gypsies. 
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| Apr 4, 2006 @ 1:37 AM |
Muslims don't even respect their own constitution |
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fineartist
Posts: 124
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All I will say is that it is too easy to form a judgement on the visible and vocal minority than to consider the reality of the vast majority. It is also easier to take a short sighted view and turn the situation into an "us" versus "them" issue when at the end of the day, people, and nothing else, are suffering.
There are over five billion people populating our world. We see a tiny fraction of the people through media and we see selected information. It is difficult to ever be informed enough to make an accurate judgement unless we make the effort to seek out every possible source of information.
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