| Apr 17, 2006 @ 12:16 PM |
Muslims don't even respect their own constitution
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tezra
Posts: 195
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"Why is it that I never, ever run into people who do or say things like that?"
I think that people on the outer edges of the country have more problems like that because that is where the immigrants usually go/land, at least at first. It could also be more prevalent here because it is a "military town".
"How does someone appear to be from the Middle East or Russia?"
Their language and dress. Wearing a turban, or needing an interpreter in a store because they only speak russian, would be a few examples.
"Tezra. Maybe you should develop your own perfect Utopia and live there all by yourself and then would not be bullied by the other sane people around you."
Still feeling a bit defensive about the other forum are you? Get over it and move on, this is a different thread.
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| Apr 17, 2006 @ 12:41 PM |
Muslims don't even respect their own constitution |
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ravensday
Posts: 388
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How does someone appear to be from the Middle East or Russia?"
Their language and dress. Wearing a turban, or needing an interpreter in a store because they only speak russian, would be a few examples
I have lived here for about 4 months now and I work downtown in a hotel, and hang out in the Muslim community and I have only seen ONE man with a turban. And I have seen lots of Muslim's.....they tend to dress like us.....but of course you are just the type to see the diffrences and instead of the sameness. And I have YET to see someone who did not speak at least some rudimentary English. They teach it in Europe as early as Kindergarten. Unlike us.
And all of the ones I have met speak English better than I do. I admire anyone who can speak a second language. Some of the people speak more than two. My Algerian friend speaks his navtive language of Berber, and also speaks French, English and Arabic. They are teaching me thier language. I want to learn about life outside of my own. ITs called culture. And please dont forget that its not been that long since our ancestors came to this country and could not speak the language either, or dress like the natives. They were acceptated. Why cant these people be? I am from Yugosalvian decent. My ancestors knew no English when they got here. They were illeterate and could not even spell thier own last name for the intake person at Ellis. My family is one of the first settlers in my area of Tennessee and have became a vital part of that community. How many of us are not decendents of imigrants?
Maybe you should develop your own perfect Utopia and live there all by yourself and then would not be bullied by the other sane people around you."
Still feeling a bit defensive about the other forum are you? Get over it and move on, this is a different thread
Ohh No Darlin' I just think you are downright funny. You really should practice what you preach. Then at least you would be consistant. 
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| Apr 18, 2006 @ 7:27 AM |
Muslims don't even respect their own constitution
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tezra
Posts: 195
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"but of course you are just the type to see the diffrences and instead of the sameness."
Three men with bright orange turbans is a bit hard to miss, especially considering they were causing a scene at the time. Or, am I to not even notice my surroundings under any circumstances to be politically correct. 
"And I have YET to see someone who did not speak at least some rudimentary English."
Here it is VERY common. Also, a lot of other countries have their own versions of english.
"They were acceptated. Why cant these people be?"
No, not all of them were. Also, should EVERYONE still be accepted when they are hurting other people?
"I am from Yugosalvian decent. ...How many of us are not decendents of
imigrants?"
All of the native american who were shoved aside.
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| Apr 18, 2006 @ 7:52 AM |
Muslims don't even respect their own constitution |
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Jankia
Posts: 9,149
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All of the native american who were shoved aside.
Not ALL native Americans were shoved aside and although our early history was disgusting to the native people our country does accept them today and is currently giving the natives back some of which was taken away.
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| Apr 18, 2006 @ 11:31 AM |
Muslims don't even respect their own constitution
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ravensday
Posts: 388
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You just cant play nice can you? So tell me Tezra...your 100% American Indian right? NOPE. So that tells me that your ancesters did some shoving too! Maybe the natives should have shoved back when it came to your forefathers.
No, not all of them were. Also, should EVERYONE still be accepted when they are hurting other people?
Ohh did some one hurt her wittle feelins? Ohh poor poor tezra.
Three men with bright orange turbans is a bit hard to miss, especially considering they were causing a scene at the time. Or, am I to not even notice my surroundings under any circumstances to be politically correct
Their dress tells me that they are shek (sp) Indians....Very peaceful people so I am not thinking that you will hear them speak in public very often. And never have I ever heard one of them raise their voice or even act out in public. They tend to keep a low profile. Mostly because of people like you.
Here it is VERY common. Also, a lot of other countries have their own versions of english.
English is English. I have lived in Europe and been able to understand every person there who spoke English to me. Even the ones who could not speak it very well. That is because I listen....what a concept. They did not have to speak English. I was in THIER country. I was their guest. They wanted to please me. They wanted me to see that they too could speak English.
I have had Indian (form India) employees who tired harder to learn my language when they found that I was learning thiers. I can now say hello and a few other phases in Hindu. And write some numbers....why? To make my life easier when dealing with my employees. So how many languages can you speak? Ever been to another country? If so did you learn to speak that language?
[Edited on 4/18/2006 11:45 AM]
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| Apr 19, 2006 @ 10:13 AM |
Muslims don't even respect their own constitution |
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Lovely1368
Posts: 112
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raven - enough is enough and you are being a complete ass. I have read a lot of your posts, and you just seem to want to pick a fight in here. Remarks like "Ohh did some one hurt her wittle feelins? Ohh poor poor tezra." are a perfect example of taking something out of context just to insult. And saying, "And never have I ever heard one of them raise their voice or even act out in public." Doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I have had similar experiences, although I have not seen any turbans that were orange. And I have been to other countries, and the english is very varied in other countries. You must admit that even in the US, with local dialects and slang, it can even vary here. No one up here says "y'all" or "howdy" unless it is in jest. Overseas I was even told, "You no talk like American." I wondered just what they thought Americans spoke, and how this person, who had never left their country would know. You make it sound like you have been to several other countries. Would you mind giving us a list?
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| Apr 19, 2006 @ 10:26 AM |
Muslims don't even respect their own constitution
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donny3
Posts: 573
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| Apr 19, 2006 @ 1:51 PM |
Muslims don't even respect their own constitution |
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ravensday
Posts: 388
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You make it sound like you have been to several other countries. Would you mind giving us a list?
No I dont mind at all: I lived in Kaiserslautern(Vogelweh Army Housing area, husband was stationed at Landstul Reginal Medical Center), Baumholder ( Baumholder Army Housing, hubby was stationed at Baumholder Army post) and Goldenhousen Germany( small village between K-town and Baumholder) for 5 years and during that time I traveled to .....France, Switzerland, Austria, Poland, and Luxembourg. For your information my husband is in the military and Germany is the size of Oregon and that makes travel to other countries easy. Need anymore infor there?
raven - enough is enough and you are being a complete ass. I have read a lot of your posts, and you just seem to want to pick a fight in here. Remarks like "Ohh did some one hurt her wittle feelins? Ohh poor poor tezra." are a perfect example of taking something out of context just to insult
And by the way...She started this whole thing I am trying to finish it.
No one up here says "y'all" or "howdy" unless it is in jest
I say Yall every freakin day. I am from the South. This is not the south, os therefore maybe Yall isnt said as much here as it is in the South.
Maybe if you 2 got away from your computers you and Tezra could get out in the world and learn a few things about it. Insead of condeming others for thier beliefs and ideals!
You no talk like American." I wondered just what they thought Americans spoke, and how this person, who had never left their country would know.
You know they never left their country how? As I have stated. English is taught as a 2nd language in other countires during the 1st few years of school. They get American TV. I know when I was in Europe I got some American TV granted it was old stuff that the BBC and Sky 5 showed but it was in English.
I also learned enough German over there to get around, and when I went to France for the week I was there, I learned some French. German is spoken in most of the border countries so I did not have to learn any other languages.
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| Apr 19, 2006 @ 4:01 PM |
Muslims don't even respect their own constitution
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Bj864
Posts: 3,118
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As if the obvious needs to be stated for some people.
We took out the Taliban in Afghanistan because it was the training ground for Al Qaeda and guiding force behind what happened on 9-11, and assorted terrorist acts even "before" that. Anything less would be like the U.S. “forgiving” Japan for Pearl Harbor, and basically ignoring a physical act of war.
You state this as if it is fact. But is it?
Have you ever researched this? Have you read about the "pipeline" that the Taliban would not agree to? Have you read about the "Carpet of Bombs" statement that was made to them?
Do you know who set up the "training camps" to start with"?
Do you know who set up, funded and trained bin Ladin to start with?
Find the factual answer to those questions and then I would be interested in seeing if you still feel like that is the real reason we went there.
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| Apr 20, 2006 @ 10:37 AM |
Muslims don't even respect their own constitution |
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tezra
Posts: 195
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raven - I doubt that traveling with the army gave you a very realistic view of other countries. First off, you would be treated differently than an average person. Second, most of those who interact with the US military have a better grasp of American english than others. At all the embasies I have been to in other countries, it was a lot easier to understand the people working there than the locals.
"I say Yall every freakin day. I am from the South. This is not the south, os therefore maybe Yall isnt said as much here as it is in the South."
This makes as much sense as most of your posts. Your profile says you are in Texas. Did they rearrange the country and move it north or something? And last time I was in Texas I heard a lot of people saying it. Guess I missed YOUR part of Texas.
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| Apr 20, 2006 @ 10:46 AM |
Muslims don't even respect their own constitution
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Jessa
Posts: 117
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Felici......
I think the poster is being ethnocentric.
I know what it means...thanks.
The new government is no longer our responsibility. We took out the old one, it's not our job anymore. Like it or not, we're not the world's police and we can't go around telling every country on Earth: "be like us...we do things the best way".
I don't agree with what was done, I do not condone it, at all. But it is a different culture, completely. Things are done differently.
And also, if you didn't know, the new constitution is based off Shari'a. Islamic Law.
Are you nto aware what reconstruction is? I realize you're young but after every major war we're obligated to "clean up the mess".. whether it be rebuild buildings or rebuild an economy.. or rebuilding a government. "We took out the old one"... so as far as you're concerned that was a government. It wasn't a government tt was Totalitarianism.. We took out a LEADER who believed in mass genocide. The people have never had a gonverment comprised of a republic or democracy. So, we just give them a few text books and leave? I wish I could be 19.
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| Apr 20, 2006 @ 10:55 AM |
Muslims don't even respect their own constitution |
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ravensday
Posts: 388
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I say Yall every freakin day. I am from the South. This is not the south, os therefore maybe Yall isnt said as much here as it is in the South."
This makes as much sense as most of your posts. Your profile says you are in Texas. Did they rearrange the country and move it north or something? And last time I was in Texas I heard a lot of people saying it. Guess I missed YOUR part of Texas.
Sorry I should have made myself plainer. I AM FROM TENNESSEE NOT TEXAS. I sometimes forget that I am in Texas when I write my posts. That was my mistake. And I was only replying to "No one up here says "y'all" or "howdy" unless it is in jest." I wanted the poster to know that yall is said quite a bit.
raven - I doubt that traveling with the army gave you a very realistic view of other countries. First off, you would be treated differently than an average person. Second, most of those who interact with the US military have a better grasp of American english than others. At all the embasies I have been to in other countries, it was a lot easier to understand the people working there than the locals
Uhh you did read the part of where I lived in Goldenhousen right? Its a small villiage NO WHERE NEAR A MILITARY INSTALLATION. Which means that they were locals. I lived in that viliage for 1 year. The 1st year I was in Germany. They spoke some ENGLISH. Again, becuase they are taught it early in school over there. Some of the older people speak less English than the younger ones. But Germany is a highly US military inundated country. However, France, Austria, and the rest of the countires I visited were not. And I didnot "travel with the Army". I traveled with my children and husband. I was there just like any other tourist. My passport looks just like yours.
At all the embasies I have been to in other countries, it was a lot easier to understand the people working there than the locals.
Ya think? Considering they were American Embassies. I think they probably did have English Speaking employess. I mean what would the point be if no one spoke English at an American Embassy?
This makes as much sense as most of your posts
Did you lose that mirror they gave you?
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| Apr 20, 2006 @ 12:19 PM |
Muslims don't even respect their own constitution
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Lovely1368
Posts: 112
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"raven - enough is enough and you are being a complete ass. I have read a lot of your posts, and you just seem to want to pick a fight in here. Remarks like "Ohh did some one hurt her wittle feelins? Ohh poor poor tezra." are a perfect example of taking something out of context just to insult
And by the way...She started this whole thing I am trying to finish it."
I am officially calling you out as a liar. Go back a page. Ignoring all your posts from here on out. But this does bring the thread back on track. I have read about the new constitution and that there were elections for a new leader. Then, I read how the Sunnis are pitching fits, not accepting it, and making major threats if this elected person does not step down and be replaced by someone else. It makes it sound like the whole election was nothing but a farce.
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| Apr 20, 2006 @ 12:49 PM |
Muslims don't even respect their own constitution |
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ravensday
Posts: 388
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Back to hell demon!!!!
I am officially calling you out as a liar
What???? IN the hello are you talking about? What are mad because I can prove I have been someplace you will never get to be? Because unlike you I have been to other countries and seen other cultures? Because I know that not everybody reacts the same way that you do toward foreginers? Because I respect them and their cultures? Becuase when I was in thier place someone helped make my time in their country easier for me?
I can prove what I say. Can you?
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| Apr 20, 2006 @ 1:44 PM |
Muslims don't even respect their own constitution
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LipGlossQueen9
Posts: 10,088
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Jessa....
I have stayed out of this thread, you didn't need to bring me back into it.
I was talking about the Taliban, not Iraq.
And lastly, as I have asked of the posters here about twenty times before...leave my age out of it. If you think my age makes me stupid, or whatever, then you know nothing about me and I ask you not to talk to me or reply to any of my posts.
If people continue to use my age as an issue on these boards, I will leave.
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| Apr 21, 2006 @ 11:53 AM |
Muslims don't even respect their own constitution |
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tezra
Posts: 195
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"after every major war we're obligated to "clean up the mess"..
Why should it be our problem cleaning up their mess? If the neighbor threw trash in my yard, and I threw it back, I sure wouldn't go over and help him clean it up.
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| Apr 21, 2006 @ 6:45 PM |
Muslims don't even respect their own constitution
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Jessa
Posts: 117
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Since you're so clueless tez ...
http://web.amnesty.org/wire/August2003/Iraq
there's some food for thought.
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| Apr 26, 2006 @ 3:40 AM |
Muslims don't even respect their own constitution |
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WickedWench
Posts: 1,613
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Raven
I have travelled fairly extensively in Europe and I know what you are saying is true. Often times you will find people with biasts have never left their own country, and tend to think that their uneducated little lives are the only way. They really need to go to another country and be humbled.
I read a few of your posts. You're correct in all of them and I don't find your comments or posts to be even slightly mean in nature, other than seeing an obvious frustration on your part of being unable to get thru the "dense" thickets.
People of that nature? Need to see for themselves before they realize how foolish they look.
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| May 14, 2006 @ 12:09 AM |
Muslims don't even respect their own constitution
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observed50
Posts: 407
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So frequently in conversations about things happening in the Islamic world, Americans tend to lump them all together, as if they are a monolithic faith. Nothing could be further from the truth...
Unlike Protestantism in the US as an example, there are no organized 'denominations' in Islam. Shia and Sunni emerge from different descendents of Mohammed's teachings and life, as do some smaller wings. Any given mosque is more like any given 'free' church in the US in which the person holding sway in the pulpit might have extensive training in some 'seminary' or might not. Often, mosques lack central leadership. And trying to get them to do things as a group of mosques is tough.
This lack of organization helps give rise to people like a Khomeni in Iran in the 70, or Sadr today in Iraq, because they have so minimal structure that can be organized against them to quiet their voice and remove them from a 'pulpit.' Their 'theologies' aren't channeled as in a Baptist, Catholic or Methodist seminary. And like 'free' pastors in the US, folks like a Khomeni or Sadr know where to touch the hearts and spirits of so many disenfranchised males. Much like the Protestants in Northern Ireland, or the Dutch Reformed Church was in South Africa. Good church leaders, like good politicians, know how to manipulate a social identity (in this case 'good muslim') to wreak social havoc all in the name of righteousness. Afterall, lynchings in the US were often led by the great white church leaders, also known as 'town fathers.'
So this isn't about 'Muslims don't even respect..." Its about a segment of the Muslim community don't respect. I would never say because conservative christians want there to be prayer in schools that Christians don't even respect their own constitution...but I might argue that a certain segment of fundamentalist and conservative Christians don't respect it.
And as to clash of civilizations...my mother's side of the family has a strong Cherokee lineage. I was married in an open field with Native American symbol systems. In seminary, in a class on Native Spiritualities, one of the things brought forward by historians was how Native American's first experience of european gods was the experience of priests followed by Blue Coats,...with the constant referencing to 'Jeeeesus' as they trampled over the native culture and peoples. if we look at slavery in the US, it was an institution blessed by the Church in the south...and the Catholic Church from Rome as it affected the Carribean and South America. Southern Baptists are not American Baptists because they split over the issue of slavery - the southern brethern just knew that their god sanctioned their degradation of millions of people.
Most Muslims in the world are deeply aligned with the roots of Islam meaning 'peace.' News folks always referring to 'Islamic terrorists' have done a great job of taking a nation who knows little about the rest of the world, and convincing it that its about "them Muslims." Note how whenever Isreal bombs Palestinian camps while Isreal continues to occupy territory against numerous UN resolutions...they never refer to the bombings as 'Jewish terrorists.' That's because they have jets...makes their violence more legitimate...even if their cause is the protection of occupation. Note how when we bomb weddings and similar things in Iraq...the news doesn't refer to 'Christian terrorists' even though many people in war always sense it as for god and country. We got the jets...we can't be terrorists...only people trying to stop us using jets to our oil advantage.
This isn't a clash of civilizations at that level. Its a clash of the have's versus the have nots...and the have nots are tired of being without. One's gods simply make it possible to have the cajones to do things unthinkable without abstractions one can pin anything on, like a god blessing terrorism...or bombing a refugee camp from a fighter jet.
What would we do without gods to keep us from dealing directly with the people suffering in front of us?
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| May 14, 2006 @ 12:25 AM |
Muslims don't even respect their own constitution |
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davelrrp
Posts: 180
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Observed, it unfortunately is about "them Muslims". The fact that the terrorists hide among the mass of the Muslim world and are shielded by those masses, it has become "them Muslims". When the Muslims who want "peace" stop supporting the terrorists by, at the very least, inaction to separate themselves from terrorism, they are terrorists themselves by that very fact.
[Edited on 5
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