| Jun 14, 2006 @ 9:46 PM |
The Best American President
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imgettingtired
Posts: 71
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Lip:
I'd agree with you completely but I'd put George Washington above them all w/FDR as 2, and Abe Lincoln as 3. If you do any history about the 1st President you realize he basically gave up his whole life for his country. All that he wanted to do is be a gentleman farmer at Mt. Vernon, VA but ended up believing he had an obligation to start up this nation to become what it is today. In 4th place would be Teddy Roosevelt, you couldn't find a better environmentalist ever with him -established the national parks we have today. There were so many good presidents though Thomas Jefferson's administration was part of the great exploration/expansion of U.S. around and west of the Mississippi.
In the last century after JFK basically to me there were no good/great presidents. The only good piece of legislation ever passed after JFK's assasination was the Civil Rights bill with LBJ. We didn't need the Vietnam War, the invasions of little countries by Reagan/Bush in the 1980s and early 1990s.
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| Jun 18, 2006 @ 11:51 PM |
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Spirit76
Posts: 537
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"Who was the best American president?"
George Bush - The current President.
Why? Anyone who can get up, day after day, with being attacked and blamed for every last thing wrong in the world, and keep going, has got to have an exceptional personality and ability to handle criticism that would whither most others in a ten minutes. Frankly, I admire the man for sticking to his beliefs and going the distance without bowing to pressures and dogma that he does not agree with. That is called courage in my book.
I realize that this statement of mine will create quite a reaction, but think about my point before you write me to "correct me" for my view. This is the only post I will make for this thread. I won't engage in any further dialogue on the topic but will read the thread responses with interest ;>)
Spirit.
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| Jun 19, 2006 @ 10:04 AM |
The Best American President
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Bj864
Posts: 4,238
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This is the only post I will make for this thread. I won't engage in any further dialogue on the topic but will read the thread responses with interest ;>)
So, you are willing to make a statement, but you refuse to defend it? Wonder why?
All I have to say is that I feel saddened by your post. To think that anyone could believe that,, after all the harm (both at home and abroad) he has caused, is very sad to me.
One has to wonder how this country is ever going to recover, with people like you still supporting this evil agenda. Thank God, the numbers are less every day that goes by...............
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| Jun 19, 2006 @ 10:51 AM |
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Spirit76
Posts: 537
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Hmm....
The usual Liberal hook to snare me into an argument based on promoting weakness, promoting peace at all costs while our enemies gather to attack us and promoting a no-security policy for our borders.
Add apologizing for the existance of Americans, much less human-beings, as being detrimental and casting doubt and despair without so much as a good plan, useful idea or encouraging word and you see the platform of the Liberal. The only thing proposed by such people? Tax increases and beating up America for fun.
I stand by my earlier support for our President.
America first! - (Oh my... I said something dirty according to you, didn't I?)
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| Jun 19, 2006 @ 11:06 AM |
The Best American President
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RareQuestor
Posts: 3,069
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Some friendly advice, Spirit: If you cannot say anything constructive, then don't say anything at all. Liberal/conservative bashing never yet won an argument. 
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| Jun 19, 2006 @ 11:49 AM |
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Bj864
Posts: 4,238
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America first! - (Oh my... I said something dirty according to you, didn't I?)
You said something right this time. I definitely agree with this one. If we all put our country first we have to know that wars with no end in site, ignoring global warming, tearing down rules to protect the environment, invading everyones privacy, infringing on our rights, governing against our own constitution etc etc are NOT putting America first.
Yes, lets put America first.
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| Jun 19, 2006 @ 1:03 PM |
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LipGlossQueen9
Posts: 11,182
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Spirit..... 
To think this lame duck of a "president" (or marionette, as I affectionately call him) could compare with Abraham Lincoln and Franklin Delano Roosevelt is just....so amusing. Thank you for brightening my day 
You should do standup.
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| Jun 19, 2006 @ 9:08 PM |
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imgettingtired
Posts: 71
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Lip:
George Bush isn't even in their league. They were uniters not dividers, they believed in a united strong America, not division.
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| Jun 19, 2006 @ 9:34 PM |
The Best American President
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Jankia
Posts: 12,606
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Everyone can bitch all they want about our current president but do you know which presidents had a far lower approval rating during their administration than Bush?
Carter and Truman
Washington was indeed a fine American for his leadership during the Revolutionary war but I would never rank him as one of the best Presidents.Nor would I rank any others who were slave owners.
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| Jun 20, 2006 @ 12:41 AM |
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Spirit76
Posts: 537
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Rarequestor,
I am the fly in the ointment who reminds you that this is a world of diversity and opinion. You should be thanking me and others like me for preserving your freedom, considering that is what I do for a living anyway.
What is *so* wrong with being an individual that it brings such controversy? I tested these waters on purpose to see if attitudes have grown and sadly, you've all shown me that there is no room for free thought or expression unless branded so by the thought police. Nothing goes EXCEPT for your brand of reality that is approved by the Borg collective.
Honestly, this country is in trouble if dialogue and free-expression of controversial thoughts go out the door for "feel-good" politics and jumping on anyone who expresses an opinion that doesn't "fit" the approved monolithic mindset.
Isn't it a central tenant of Liberal thought that celebrates diversity? I guess it is only an ideal and not an actual item of practice. After all, the truth of diversity of opinion does get in the way in a rather uncomfortable way at times...
This isn't going to be an argument anyone can win, so I'm wasting my time here and you'll be wasting time convincing me of the "error" of my ways.
Have a good evening and take care. I'm going to hang out with people who do entertain other opinions without jumping all over someone for holding alternative opinons. The folks I hang with ask *why* an opinion is held before automatically correcting me and coming down with heavy judgement. This is called "adult conversation" and is refreshing when engaged in.
Spirit.
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| Jun 20, 2006 @ 12:46 AM |
The Best American President
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LipGlossQueen9
Posts: 11,182
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Everyone can bitch all they want about our current president but do you know which presidents had a far lower approval rating during their administration than Bush?
Carter and Truman
First off, I will "bitch" until January 20th, 2009. It is my right and my patriotic duty as a voting citizen of these United States and if you do not like it, I am sorry, but I could not care less :-D
Secondly....I believe I stated, somewhere in this thread actually...that though Jimmy Carter is an amazing humanitarian and philanthropist, the man couldn't lead a country out of a funhouse, if he was sober and if it was sunny. So to bring Jimmy Carter into the debate really does nothing for your point. As for Harry Truman, I really have no opinion on him, he comes from an area of history that I really don't know much about, so I can't properly form an opinion.
Honestly, this country is in trouble if dialogue and free-expression of controversial thoughts go out the door for "feel-good" politics and jumping on anyone who expresses an opinion that doesn't "fit" the approved monolithic mindset.
I hear this bull spouted from the mouth of Sean Hannity whenever I listen to him and it gets so old. Spirit, your opinion about George W. Bush is not controversial. Sorry to let you know, dear, but it's just not. You expressed your opinion, and Bj and I pounced on it like lionesses on antelope. That's what debate is. You have every right to do the same to us. I mean, how ridiculous and hypocritical is it that you go around saying "liberals hate diversity blahblahblah" and all this absolute nonsense when nobody came out and SAID that you could not express your opinion or your opinion was not welcome? We had EVERY RIGHT to dispute your opinion if we did not agree with it. The diversity of opinion in this country is what makes it beautiful. I may not like or agree with your opinion, but you can certainly have it. I can also certainly have mine. And we can both express them. But when you go on saying that "liberals hate diversity", it's a bunch of crap and a bad tactic.
[Edited on 6
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| Jun 20, 2006 @ 1:23 AM |
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RareQuestor
Posts: 3,069
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The usual Liberal hook to snare me into an argument based on promoting weakness, promoting peace at all costs while our enemies gather to attack us and promoting a no-security policy for our borders.
Add apologizing for the existance of Americans, much less human-beings, as being detrimental and casting doubt and despair without so much as a good plan, useful idea or encouraging word and you see the platform of the Liberal. The only thing proposed by such people? Tax increases and beating up America for fun.
This is what you consider "adult conversation?" 
Have a good evening and take care. I'm going to hang out with people who do entertain other opinions without jumping all over someone for holding alternative opinons. The folks I hang with ask *why* an opinion is held before automatically correcting me and coming down with heavy judgement. This is called "adult conversation" and is refreshing when engaged in.
Ah, the logic of a child: "Nobody likes me, so I'm going to take my toys and go home."
If you follow your own advice and read my post more carefully, you will notice the most important words in it are"Liberal/conservative bashing never yet won an argument." It is not my intent to discourage intelligent participation in this forum. If you have a rational, coherent position that you wish to discuss, we are all happy to listen. We may even agree with you. Sneering at people and using the same tired stereotypes and clichés that have been repeated ad nauseum is quite a different matter. It ought to be obvious that we are all unique individuals and that no label or preconception can be completely applied to any one person. There are plenty of Republicans here who agree with much of liberal ideology and plenty of liberals who support conservative policies. It is actually disrespectful to those who fight for the freedom that you state you cherish so much. It distresses me to see anyone who can write as well as you can to utter such degrading trash. 
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| Jun 20, 2006 @ 1:33 AM |
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Spirit76
Posts: 537
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One has to wonder how this country is ever going to recover, with people like you still supporting this evil agenda. Thank God, the numbers are less every day that goes by...............
RareQuestor,
I'm really not up for the never-ending corrections from you for being who I am, and you can say what you will. Frankly, I wasn't addressing you in these posts anyway, but ok... I'll respond to you by addressing what really ticked me off in this whole thread.
You *can* handle honesty I presume?
The quote I show at the top of this message is what angered me. Frankly, no one bothered to criticize this person who came in and attacked me first. And it was an attack and a put down. The truth is, because I am a conservative, I am the automatic target because of my philosophy and ideals and there is nothing else to say... is there?
Tell me that I'm wrong... I'd love to hear what you have to say...
Spirit.
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| Jun 20, 2006 @ 1:35 AM |
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Jankia
Posts: 12,606
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First off, I will "bitch" until January 20th, 2009. It is my right and my patriotic duty as a voting citizen of these United States and if you do not like it, I am sorry, but I could not care less :-D
Tell me please where I ever said that that you couldnt bitch.Read what I wrote.If you dont understand it than I could care less as well.I wrote...
Everyone can bitch all they want about our current president
Secondly...So to bring Jimmy Carter into the debate really does nothing for your point.
My not answering the question I asked is when it would mean nothing.
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| Jun 20, 2006 @ 1:55 AM |
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LipGlossQueen9
Posts: 11,182
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Tell me please where I ever said that that you couldnt bitch.
I um...didn't think you said that. It just infuriates me that people call the expressing of opinion "bitching", and I was telling you that if you didn't like it (I'm assuming you don't, since you call it "bitching"), that I will be continuing with it until he's out of office...and I'll probably be doing it this November during Midterms, and probably in '08, and probably after the election if the one I want doesn't win. It's the way I am.
And Spirit....
The truth is, because I am a conservative, I am the automatic target because of my philosophy and ideals and there is nothing else to say... is there?
Oh, boo hoo. Do you honestly think every liberal here is out to get you because you're a conservative, that we all hate you and want you to stop existing? I know I've got more of a life than that...pretty sure Bj does, too. And I'm so glad that you just KNOW that you're a target and that you just KNOW what everybody's thinking. If you can't handle debate then why'd you come to the politics boards? Did you think you were going to find a bunch of Scalias, Levins, Hannitys, Coulters, Limbaughs, and Ingrahams? Sorry....but we're much more a diverse group than that. Your opinions are welcomed and celebrated but if you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen, brother.
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| Jun 20, 2006 @ 2:12 AM |
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RareQuestor
Posts: 3,069
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RareQuestor,
I'm really not up for the never-ending corrections from you for being who I am, and you can say what you will. Frankly, I wasn't addressing you in these posts anyway, but ok... I'll respond to you by addressing what really ticked me off in this whole thread.
Damn. I hate when that happens. The fact you addressed your post to me should have tipped me off right away. 
Here is some more friendly advice: Just because somebody attacks you does not necessarily mean that you need to get down in the mud and wrestle with them. 
It can also be useful to do a bit of research before you defend yourself if that is indeed your purpose. You may or may not have noticed it, but I almost never waste my time responding to posts by Bj864. I have read dozens of her posts here and never yet seen her persuaded or convinced by logic or even common sense. All you can really do is trade insults with her and that will eventually get you banned from this site. Why not let the rest of us judge whether her attack was warranted or pointless? The advantage of the high ground is that it is harder for people to fling mud up at you. 
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| Jun 20, 2006 @ 2:21 AM |
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Spirit76
Posts: 537
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Hmmm....
Lipgloss - you've given me food for thought, so I'll ask the question:
Are the personal attacks the proper form for dialogue in your opinion? To be honest, this is the central issue I'm wrestling with here, since the Liberal mindset seems (and of course, this is just my opinion) to use rather personal attacks rather than a more subtle and civilized form of debate. Perhaps I'm just expecting too much of people. I can adjust the approach I use to just ignore the attacks if this is just what is to be expected. I usually debate with people who don't get personal and that was what was so surprising to me.
You did the "boo hoo" thing well, but as always, my views were never even seriously considered or debated. The only thing important is to defeat the evil Conservative who has no soul, no opinion worth hearing and who shouldn't exist - right? Of course I'm right. I'm a souless, evil horrible man who has no good points - after all - isn't that what your last post alluded to? To be honest, I'm actually a very easy going person and help a lot of people despite my handicap of being a free-thinker.
You know something, despite the fact I didn't vote for President Clinton, I gave the man his due because he was the duly elected leader of the country. And many other conservatives did too (and no, we didn't all agree with the impeachment thing - it was the wrong thing to do IMHO). My point here is that if the evil Right has many people in it who recognize and respect the leader of the free-world, even though he isn't of their party, can't the Left do the same at this critical time in world history? My original post was to say I respected President Bush for just having the sheer tenacity to stick it out and believe in himself. This was my "crime". I spoke freely in a free society and for this, I was attacked by someone and chastised. Had I spoken about Bill Clinton in admiration, there would have been oohs and aahs about my good taste - right?
I'll take your post to heart and develop more of a thick skin, since it seems that I've been taking the personal attacks to close to heart and should just fight back harder. I will do so. Thank You!
Spirit.
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| Jun 20, 2006 @ 2:23 AM |
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Spirit76
Posts: 537
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Here is some more friendly advice: Just because somebody attacks you does not necessarily mean that you need to get down in the mud and wrestle with them.
Actually, I find that a useful piece of advice.
Spirit.
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| Jun 20, 2006 @ 2:39 AM |
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LipGlossQueen9
Posts: 11,182
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The only thing important is to defeat the evil Conservative who has no soul, no opinion worth hearing and who shouldn't exist - right? Of course I'm right. I'm a souless, evil horrible man who has no good points - after all - isn't that what your last post alluded to? To be honest, I'm actually a very easy going person and help a lot of people despite my handicap of being a free-thinker.
When are you going to stop??? Did you actually read the part of my post that was addressed to you? I don't think you are a soulless, evil, horrible man...I don't even KNOW you!! I'm sure you are what you say you are, and guess what, darling, I am a free-thinker, too, have been since I was able to talk.
My Lord, I could walk around singing the praises of every Conservative demagogue and this guy would still think I was trying to make him look like a fool.
Guess what, Spirit, keep this up, won't be me that's doing it.
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| Jun 20, 2006 @ 2:44 AM |
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Spirit76
Posts: 537
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LipGloss,
Your point is taken and noted. Thank you. Have a nice evening.
Spirit.
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