| Jun 2, 2006 @ 5:39 PM |
Is white Euro culture being unfairly trashed?
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Thor1960303
Posts: 3,555
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We've all heard about discrimination and racial profiling and the language issues, but I'm seeing a trend that I feel is every bit as wrong as denying Rosa Parks her seat at the front of the bus.
Reverse discrimination,educational curriculum that seem to want to blame all the world's ills on white European culture.The way I see it,mankind is responsible for his own evils and it's not something perculiar to any particular race.Yes Africans were enslaved by whites.Then so has every other race on the planet been enslaved at one time or the other.Other races have committed genocide,ethnic cleansing and every other evil on each other.This is the nature of man, man is inherently evil and this condition will never change.It's wrong imo to look at it as any one race's fault or even as a racial issue at all,it's a HUMAN issue.
There is a popular school of thought among the PC crowd that because the scales of racial balance were tipped in favor of one race in a time past, they should be tipped the other way so the goal of equality could be achieved at some future date.There are many fallacies with this line of thinking.First and foremost, two wrongs don't make a right.You can't make up for wrongs done to a generation of one race long past by wronging a generation of another in the present.Secondly, as I have seen, the attempts at "equality" have brought about a lowering of standards in education which spilled over into the arenas of many professions.Racial quotas have caused businesses to suffer by keeping positions open long enough to fill with a certain number of minority applicants.I've heard many management types complain that they've had to pass up qualified people to hire people who were less qualified so they could fill the minority quotent.What's fair about this?
As far as "fairness" is concerned, I was always taught that life was not fair and to get over it.Fair is something that comes to town once a year.
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| Jun 2, 2006 @ 5:45 PM |
Is white Euro culture being unfairly trashed? |
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spongebob777
Posts: 7,904
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Simply stated "yes".
I never took part in slavery, gay bashing, racial profiling and the whole laundry list of other offenses real and imagined and have no intent of paying for them.
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| Jun 2, 2006 @ 5:48 PM |
Is white Euro culture being unfairly trashed?
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Heaveninawildflower
Posts: 19,352
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Hey, I was a 'victim' of sexual discrimination and I NEVER felt the need for any affirmative action. I'm strictly 'mother please, I'd rather do it myself'. And if I feel that it did wonders for building my character, who am I to deny that same positive experience to anyone else?
  
However, I've been on the hiring side for a long time now, and I've never had to, nor heard of anyone having to, pass up on a qualified person for one of lesser qualifications.
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| Jun 2, 2006 @ 7:50 PM |
Is white Euro culture being unfairly trashed? |
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bryan2992
Posts: 688
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I've not heard of a business "having" to do it, but when I was doing the hiring at a couple of the places I worked it was implied that I needed to make sure I kept a mix of employee's even if all that applied was one race.
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| Jun 2, 2006 @ 8:15 PM |
Is white Euro culture being unfairly trashed?
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SunBabe
Posts: 12,278
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However, I've been on the hiring side for a long time now, and I've never had to, nor heard of anyone having to, pass up on a qualified person for one of lesser qualifications.
I was told point blank that I wouldn't get a promotion because I was a fertile married woman and the job should go to a married MAN with kids...I'd just leave the office if I had kids  (that was in the days before "human resources complaint departments"). I showed THEM! I went out and got pregnant -- and STAYED HOME!!! ...and threw their comments back in their faces when they'd call, begging me to come back 
And my ex faced the "reverse discrimination" thingy personally. He was laid off (cut-backs, yanno ) then was firmly informed that HIS JOB, when it opened up again, was "targeted" for a minority woman!...yes, even if it meant hiring someone FAR less qualified (in the engineering/financial analysis field).
I never laughed so hard as when he came in the door and announced that he wanted me to go shopping with him to buy himself a DRESS -- absolutely deadpan straight face! After picking my giggling self up off the ground, we cried...together. That's when we learned about "realities" and how some are legally more equal than others ~sigh~  (A rude awakening for those of us who'd spent our whole lives promoting equality in society and the workplace)
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| Jun 2, 2006 @ 8:47 PM |
Is white Euro culture being unfairly trashed? |
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Heaveninawildflower
Posts: 19,352
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I was told point blank that I wouldn't get a promotion because I was a fertile married woman
I was told the same, except that I was just a young, fertile, marriageable woman. I promptly quit, found another job, married and had my babies and stayed home until the marriage fell apart. Then I just looked for a job to put food on the table, and thirty-six years later, I'm still there. Somehow it evolved from a stopgap to a career, but even before it was legally mandated, they gave me the opportunity to show what I could do. I repaid them by staying when other companies were trying to lure me away...still haven't regretted it either.
As for hiring, maybe it's because the philosophy here has stayed very much the same through the years...they've always wanted to put the best person possible in the job, regardless of anything. Oddly enough, the company that wouldn't promote me is now defunct, and the one I joined went from a mom and pop shop to a multi-billion dollar enterprise during my tenure....kinda makes you go hmmmmmmm, don't it? Capitalism at work, at its best.
[Edited on 6
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| Jun 3, 2006 @ 10:33 AM |
Is white Euro culture being unfairly trashed?
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LipGlossQueen9
Posts: 11,176
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as someone who has never had a job, i don't know if i can accurately answer your question. however....among certain minority groups in school with me, there is a sort of...i don't know if you'd call it double standard, but there is definitely something. a lot of them only hang out with members of their own race. i was at a saturday detention once and i sat with a group of black kids and they were talking about how their father had asked them to "set a good example for the white kids", or something. they'll often make remarks like "you're white, you don't understand.", as if I've never gone through any racial discrimination or people have never absolutely hated me because of my ethnic background. well...they don't really know a thing. it's not just that i'm a woman. i'm part saudi arabian, and that was a party after 9/11. people see how serious i am about politics but doubt my intelligence because i've never taken an Honors or Advanced Placement class: my view on it is why the hell waste your time on that bulls*** and do all the extra work...what are you trying to prove, and to whom?
Dan is Peruvian and Chilean...when him and I started dating, there was this Puerto Rican girl who came up to me one day and told me that I was stealing one of their men, I was just a fat white bitch and should stick to white guys. I was astonished.
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| Jun 4, 2006 @ 11:29 AM |
Is white Euro culture being unfairly trashed? |
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imgettingtired
Posts: 71
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If you know anything of world history europeans have been colonialist throughout the history of at least the last 300 years occupying many asian, middle east and african areas. we may not have been directly responsible for it because much of it has happened long ago but spreading religion and dividing nations artificially (not by nationality but by geography) hasn't been wise and has lead to many decades of warfare worldwide. To just talk about it doesn't mean the generation now has to take blame for it.
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| Jun 4, 2006 @ 4:41 PM |
Is white Euro culture being unfairly trashed?
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observed50
Posts: 407
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Reverse discrimination...popular term that has a lot of political and emotional baggage with it...Let's look at a few historical problems...
Millions of Africans brought over for forced labor because Native Americans were to familiar with land and too disassociated with farm labor for so many tribes, that working plantations was too foreign to them, and escape into the countryside and swamps was too easy because it was home...they knew the swamps far better than them white boys. Bringing them...?? White Christian Europeans. The most vicious slavery in history on the largest scale, because it wasn't slave labor as in most other societies having slaves,..it was sub-human slave labor. African slaves weren't really people like them good ol white folks. They were less than people. Heck...that good old Constitution said they were only a fraction of a person.
Took a Civil War, ~645,000 dead (more than the combined total of US dead in all other US wars combined) and another 100+ years before the a good chunk of the White US would surrender this sociopathic need to have African's be less than human. Southern Baptist Church only apologized for the 'sin' of its support of slavery in the last decade, a sin that brought it to separate from the American Baptist church cuz the White Euro-Christians felt that God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost certainly supported just how important white folks were to the well being of the universe. Only in the last two decades have all states removed the laws of miscegnation, the practice of marrying between 'races.' The US government never fulfilled its promise made after the Civil War to pay reparations to all slaves and their descendents, 40 acres and a mule. It was 1954, and the Supreme Court had to step in and break the grip of White Euro-Christians on legislatures across the country that would not confront the horrendous gap in education access and resources, by stamping out the ludicrous idea that education could be separate, but equal.
I thought it important to lay a little of the history out to remind us that its only since the late 60s that the US has been making much of any effort to right a wrong. Before that time, the country as a whole sort hoped they could just keep going on as if the inequality would be addressed at someone else's expense...not their own. You know the mentality, NIMBY - not in my back yard. I want to produce waste, but someone else should have to live near the dump? Or development is okay when I am trying to get a house built, but after, its bad? The world should give me all....make others pay for it??
Now...the question is...how do you right deep, long, vicious historical wrongs? You say to the benefactors and the losers of that historical wrong..."Okay, from this day forward, no more wrong. Everyone will be treated equal, okay? Everyone okay with that?" I don't think it takes too much to figure out who wants to act like going forward as if everything today is equal is the way to go? And it shouldn't take too much to figure out who wouldn't think that was a great idea. And it shouldn't take too much to note how going forward from here as if it is equal, is inherently, not going forward as equal.
Even though the White Christians aren't today enslaving anybody, they/we are disproportionately benefitting from how society evolved under this racist past. African Americans aren't poor more than whites as a percentage of the group because they love being poor. Its a historical result of opportunities, access, mobility, and, being a coerced immigrant. Schools in Memphis, predominantly black, don't have an almost 50% dropout rate because AA kids are inherently not good school kids...its because the schools of most urban centers in the US suck so fricking bad, it should be criminal.
I could go on and on and on and on as I had to semester after semester of teaching Race and Ethnic studies at the university level because the voice was raised each semester by some white students about reverse discrimination. We had to walk through it each semester and dismantle the mythologies around "all these jobs and opportunities going to minorities."
The 1954 Supreme Court ruling said that separate but equal is not and cannot be equal. The problems the Court has been unwilling to address head on is that a system that then emerges from such inequality is inherently unequal unless people start on equal footing. And in the US and most countries, minorities are very seldom on the same footing.
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| Jun 4, 2006 @ 5:18 PM |
Is white Euro culture being unfairly trashed? |
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Thor1960303
Posts: 3,555
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Now...the question is...how do you right deep, long, vicious historical wrongs?
You can't.There's no such thing as righting a past wrong unless someone invents time travel.The only thing you can do is forgive wrong, learn from it and move on.Only then can healing begin.
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| Jun 4, 2006 @ 6:04 PM |
Is white Euro culture being unfairly trashed?
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spongebob777
Posts: 7,904
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You can't.There's no such thing as righting a past wrong unless someone invents time travel.
Yep, the son doesn't pay for the sins of the father in America.
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| Jun 4, 2006 @ 9:17 PM |
Is white Euro culture being unfairly trashed? |
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observed50
Posts: 407
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You can't.There's no such thing as righting a past wrong unless someone invents time travel.The only thing you can do is forgive wrong, learn from it and move on.Only then can healing begin.
Thor> I'm not sure what you're pointing at here, but justice is ALWAYS about righting past wrongs. You can't right something that hasn't happened? The statute of limitations shapes what we're able to reach back for, how far. Somethings, we provide no statute of limitations, like murder. And certainly, slavery was filled with murder...or more accurately, genocide, in the Middle Passage. Currently in Sierra Leone, Liberia, Serbia, South Africa, Rwanda and other similar places, there are Commissions of Reconciliation where the Commissions seek to find the perpetrators of past wrongs...and do what is possible to right them. The whole concept of justice rests on looking at the past...understanding the forces shaping it...and delivering some sense of balance to the outcome lacking in the original outcome.
Yep, the son doesn't pay for the sins of the father in America.
Sponge - Actually, that's quite distant from the fact of the matter, isn't it? Take drug money. If yer dad buys you a car with money from drug sales or activity, that car can and will be confiscated from you. Similarly, if the car was from money your dad made from a bank heist, the car can and will be taken from you. You can't go to prison cuz your dad robbed the bank, but anything that is the material result of his ill gotten gain can be taken from you. Think of the logic of a world in which ill-gotten gains from theft or whatever were protected if they weren't in the hands of the original perpetrator? I rob banks, put the money in my kids bank accounts and voila! "Can't touch me!!!"
The only people who want justice to be about forward thinking instead of backward looking, are those benefitting from the ill-gotten gain. Doesn't that raise a question as to whether this is a problem of reverse discrimination, or a problem of "I got mine...now you go git yers!"
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| Jun 4, 2006 @ 9:36 PM |
Is white Euro culture being unfairly trashed?
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spongebob777
Posts: 7,904
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Doesn't that raise a question as to whether this is a problem of reverse discrimination, or a problem of "I got mine...now you go git yers!"
Actually it's a matter of "I earned mine, there's nothing stopping you from earning yours". Aside from the fact that government has us all equally screwed.
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| Jun 4, 2006 @ 10:24 PM |
Is white Euro culture being unfairly trashed? |
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bryan2992
Posts: 688
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I agree with sponge, the only thing keeping people down is personal choice. there are MANY african americans who have worked their way from poverty to have promising carreers, nice homes, and draw no aid from the gov. like most people the biggest thing in keeping them down it them. not race, color, or anything. my school had a 45% dropout rate for each class. mine started with 160 freshman year we graduated 90. and that was an all white school in rural american. drop out rates have nothing to do with where the school is. it has to do with how important education is to the parents of the children.
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| Jun 4, 2006 @ 10:29 PM |
Is white Euro culture being unfairly trashed?
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spongebob777
Posts: 7,904
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My last boss was black and he was a tough but fair man that I consider to be a friend as well. He may dress like he just stepped off the cover of a rap CD but looks can be deceiving.
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| Jun 4, 2006 @ 11:37 PM |
Is white Euro culture being unfairly trashed? |
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PsychoMagnet
Posts: 251
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What baffles me is that when a person of European descent expresses his concern about his people, he's labeled an "88er"; almost always by someone of the same descent. Where does this self-hatred come from? Or is it simply a matter of a desperate attempt to be noticed in the forums as politically fashionable?
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| Jun 4, 2006 @ 11:43 PM |
Is white Euro culture being unfairly trashed?
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spongebob777
Posts: 7,904
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Personally I've decided that the racism label only works as a weapon if I retreat from it. These days I tell people to call me a racist if they wish but I know better, the people who know me know better, and people who meet me will figure it out soon enough.
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| Jun 5, 2006 @ 12:40 AM |
Is white Euro culture being unfairly trashed? |
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EvoPsych
Posts: 390
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Oh...I have no problems with Euro culture.....Nor any self loathing.
I only get alarmed when they start making blood oaths over white babies....promising to protect them from the mud peoples.
Identity Christianity is a pretty twisted philosophy.
Don't believe me.....ask Robert Matthews....wait...no you can't ask Robby anything cause he's DEAD and most of his Order, Arm and Sword of the Lord buddies are in jail for killing a Jewish radio talk show host.
Guess they got a little carried away with all that protecting White Euro Culture stuff.
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| Jun 5, 2006 @ 7:04 AM |
Is white Euro culture being unfairly trashed?
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imgettingtired
Posts: 71
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Thank you for your note, I'm so glad you posted it wasn't only before/during the Civil War that they were treated like dirt within our lifetimes. On the day of my birth, March 7, 1965 was the walk from Selma to Montgomery for civil rights and that wasn't ancient history. Of course other caucasians want to bury it, I choose to acknowledge it, its not self-hatred its fact.
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| Jun 5, 2006 @ 9:15 AM |
Is white Euro culture being unfairly trashed? |
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FeliciVagano
Posts: 2,152
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The only people who want justice to be about forward thinking instead of backward looking, are those benefitting from the ill-gotten gain. Doesn't that raise a question as to whether this is a problem of reverse discrimination, or a problem of "I got mine...now you go git yers!" there is a basic flaw in your argument for reparations ..Why stop with african americans? After you get your 40 acres and a mule ..then immediately give it to the american indians, as it was their land to begin with..thinking it is just the same old story..you got it..I want it..so just give it to me.. My short answer is...no
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.( BTW, I laugh whenever I hear this "I really don't want 40 acres and a mule..I want cash instead" ).
edited for spelling...
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