| Jan 13 @ 1:22 PM |
Advice on building my own computer
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RareQuestor
Posts: 1,519
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This is an update on the problem described in the thread "Diagnosing a boot program problem":
I tried three times, but was unable to successfully clone the hard drive on my
E-Machines computer last July. I even unsuccessfully attempted to reformat the hard drive and reinstall all my programs. I do not know whether I erased critical drivers or whether the motherboard was defective, but my PS/2 keyboard would not function after that and I had to buy a USB keyboard just to salvage my data. I
finally acknowledged the inevitable and purchased a DELL Inspiron computer instead. The Inspiron functions perfectly (although Windows Vista occasionally drives me crazy), but I discovered that it only accepts SATA hard drives and, of course, all of the hard drives from the other computers are ATA. I do not think that it is worth the expense or trouble to repair either of the E-Machines computers--I now loathe E-Machines as much as I detest Gateway--and, as far as I am aware, the only alternative is to build my own computer.
I have located a tower in which I can fit at least three hard drives, but I do not know how many other components I need. I know that I need a motherboard, of course, and probably a video card as well as a fan, but will I also need to buy another copy of Windows or can I just set up the tower so that it is effectively an external hard
drive for my Inspiron? Can anybody help me compile a list of all of the equipment and software that I will need? (I thought I might order the equipment from www.tigerdirect.com, but I'll be glad to check out any website that you recommend.) Last, but not least, do you have any idea how long this project might take to complete?
Thanks in advance! 
P.S. Death to E-Machines! Die, you infernal corporate scum!  (Sorry, I just had to get that off o fmy chest.  )
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| Jan 13 @ 1:54 PM |
Advice on building my own computer |
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chatillion
Posts: 183
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What's your budget?
Cloning drives.. I used to use Norton Ghost. It worked well for many installations. The guys at Best Buy recommend Acronis, True Image. That worked and has more features but I had to re-install a few programs to make them work properly.
I think Tiger Direst is the best choice for Computer parts and hardware.
If the processor and the memory in the e-machines computer are generic and still working, you could replace the motherboard and fan for under $100. Sometimes they have bundled specials, motherboard, processor and fan for under $100 with rebate. If the e-machines processor is less than 3 years old, it should work. It's compatible just older (slower) technology, but it should work. Tell them you need video and sound on the motherboard. Network and 4 USB are usually standard.
Why would you need drivers for a PS2 keyboard? Try the manufacturers website for drivers.
ATA hard drive enclosures are $20-30 insert your old ATA hard drive and you can connect them via USB to any computer. I wouldn't suggest booting from them but they are great for storage and backups.
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| Jan 13 @ 8:58 PM |
Advice on building my own computer
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nah12
Posts: 3,973
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if i understand the problem you are having between your ATA to SATA you might consider using a converter as seen here: http://www.xpcgear.com/ide2sata.html
as for the part about formatting it will delete all drivers and yes you have to reinstall those drivers each time you format... if you have a CD that came with your system they are usually on it ... but you must remember that anything that you changed or updated will also have to be done by hand as the CD will only restore back to factory condition (the way you got it)... as for E or gateway or dell or any others they all use priority drivers and etc with their restore CD.. that even includes different models within each vendor most of the time
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| Jan 14 @ 8:21 AM |
Advice on building my own computer |
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RareQuestor
Posts: 1,519
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I should clarify that I did use Norton Ghost when I attempted to clone the hard drive. I bought a new Maxtor internal hard drive and tried to clone the contents of the original hard drive onto it. When that failed, I concluded that the motherboard or some other component was not functioning correctly.
Why would you need drivers for a PS2 keyboard? Try the manufacturers website for drivers.
That is what made me think that the problem was not so much in the hard drive as it was in the motherboard or processor. I suppose I could replace the motherboard, but this was the second computer from E-Machines to croak in less than two years. Once is a fluke, but twice is a pattern. I deem it wisest to salvage just the hard drive (which was not manufactured by E-Machines) and recycle the rest of the computer.
As to the question of my budget, well, that is why I am seeking your advice.  A preliminary parts list and price list indicates that I could probably buy another Inspiron for less than what it would cost me to build the computer. I really appreciate the advice about the hard drive enclosures. I had not known that I can buy individual enclosures for the hard drives; I thought that a new tower was necessary. I can probably buy three enclosures for $100 or so, but, on the other hand, it might be wiser to build a new computer so that I will have a backup if the DELL fails or needs to be repaired. 
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| Jan 14 @ 8:52 AM |
Advice on building my own computer
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MotownManiax
Posts: 7,881
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 Hya RQ!!!
I see you've already found out about the horror of E-Machines....lol. I highly recommend finding a local PC place that can build a computer and give expert technical guidance (not to slam online advice, but most are not in the computer field and don't do this for a living -- plus, if some tips are wrong you can't very well fix things under warranty...lol). I may go that route for my next computer. A local shop called Power Computers built my parent's pc, and they've used it problem-free for about two years now. That's a far cry compared to the pc's they previously bought from some major manufacturers.
 Mo
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| Jan 14 @ 10:20 AM |
Advice on building my own computer |
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chatillion
Posts: 183
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There was a time when building your own computer from components ended up a lot cheaper than a name brand system. Prices are so low now, it seems hardly worth the hassle of setting things up, especially when you add a Windows O/S and prepackaged software... unless of course you're dealing with super low-end products that are poorly engineered.
The last system I built was about a year ago. Although it was more money that package deal, I'm happy with the separate components.
I'm told that every time a Dell computer goes online it wants to communicate directly with Dell. Is there a need for this?
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| Jan 14 @ 6:22 PM |
Advice on building my own computer
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sealacamp
Posts: 3,154
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I'm told that every time a Dell computer goes online it wants to communicate directly with Dell. Is there a need for this?
Not really except for those that market computers for Dell. Just another good reason to build your own. Or you can always reinstall the OS and wipe out the hard drive then reinstall everything. Then the automatic embedded program in the hard drive is dead and won't be a problem any longer.
A little over a year ago I built my own computer and it cost about 2k. If I had bought a comparable computer from a vendor it would have cost me around 3k at the time. So it just depends on what you want and the one I built will smoke the Dell I have that cost me the same to buy as the one I built.
S
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| Jan 15 @ 8:13 AM |
Advice on building my own computer |
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chatillion
Posts: 183
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sealacamp said:
Then the automatic embedded program in the hard drive is dead and won't be a problem any longer.
I would think, If you are using Dell's version of XP that was shipped with the computer, it will do exactly the same thing after you reformat the hard drive and reinstall the same operating system. Yes?
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| Jan 15 @ 9:07 AM |
Advice on building my own computer
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sealacamp
Posts: 3,154
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Well that may seem logical to some degree however that embedded portion of the program is in a separate partition on the hard drive and not part of the microsoft OS;. Since the OS is separate from the Dell partitioned area when you reformat and reinstall the OS the Dell partition is gone. I now have a Dell that is not a Dell zombie.
I once posed the question to those at Dell "What is this protected portion of the hard drive for?" I was told that it was for remote rescue purposes. But since I could not look at it or manipulate it in any way I have some lingering doubts. None the less, for me, it doesn't matter any more as I have a new hard drive and the only remnants of Dell are the drivers for some of the hardware components.
S
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| Jan 16 @ 12:35 AM |
Advice on building my own computer |
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nah12
Posts: 3,973
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RE: "What is this protected portion of the hard drive for?"
the HPA (host protected area/hiddend protected area) are used for several different reasons by many different vendors..... example Dell is known to use it with their notebooks for their Dell media utility where as IBM used it for system restore software, rootkits use it to hide so that they can't be detected by antivirus software and etc, some external hard drive vendors also use it so that it limits the hard drive size and the reasons are on and on. (as most know flash drives are not made on all the true different sizes 128, 256, 1GB, 4GB and etc they use 1, 2 or 3 different builds and just limit the available usage per unit)
As for the HPA it can be change with certian commands but you really have to know what you are doing to change the area size and know why you are changing it rather than just doing it to do it.
just a little HPA info 
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| Jan 16 @ 12:48 AM |
Advice on building my own computer
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RareQuestor
Posts: 1,519
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Just another good reason to build your own. Or you can always reinstall the OS and wipe out the hard drive then reinstall everything. Then the automatic embedded program in the hard drive is dead and won't be a problem any longer.
Unfortunately, you need to have your own copy of Windows or whatever OS you use. If you erase the HPA, the OS that came reinstalled with your computer cannot be reinstalled. That was what I meant when I said I may have erased critical drivers.
I don't know. It is possible that a new motherboard would allow the computer to function again, but at this point I just don't trust anything built by E-Machines. It irritates me that all of the service techs just recommended that I reformat the hard drive instead of helping me figure out why the malfunction occurred. It irritates me that E-Machines never mentioned the proprietary OS when I bought the computer. I feel that E-Machines abused my trust and I just want to wash my hands of that company completely. 
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| Jan 16 @ 12:55 AM |
Advice on building my own computer |
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RareQuestor
Posts: 1,519
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There was a time when building your own computer from components ended up a lot cheaper than a name brand system. Prices are so low now, it seems hardly worth the hassle of setting things up, especially when you add a Windows O/S and prepackaged software.
Yeah, that's why I am now considering just installing the hard drives in enclosures rather than building a new computer. As matters now stand, a functional copy of Windows XP or Vista would be the most expensive component of the computer by far. I have three extra hard drives, so maybe I should clone the hard drive from my DELL onto it so that I will have an extra boot disk in case of emergency. Anybody know if there are any problems cloning 2.5" hard drives onto 3.5" hard drives or vice versa?
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| Jan 16 @ 1:57 AM |
Advice on building my own computer
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nah12
Posts: 3,973
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Driver info does not reside in the HPA, reason i say that is the OS does not interact with the HPA. Once in place HPA is undectable to the OS, file systems or the BIOS. HPA is used on ATA-4 and later technology only. The HPA is only disabled when instructed through a DOS prompt and series of commands or you use special software. Just normal formatting/reformatting a hard drive will not erase the HPA.
The HPA is used to hide important information that doesn't need to be changed such as hard drive manufactor, serial #, model #, drive capacity, firmware version , protected data and etc. It reduces the number of available sectors on the disk to be read or written to.
From my experience you will run into several issues trying to clone a 2.5 to a 3.5. If i was you i'd do a lot of research before i even tried. But you ask is it possible, it just isn't a point and click option. But everything is possible with enough research, hard work and endurance is it not
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| Jan 16 @ 6:15 PM |
Advice on building my own computer |
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sealacamp
Posts: 3,154
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Very true Nah. Rare if you should need any drivers they are redially available online for just about anything including obsolete hardware items. Good luck on getting your computer configured as you want it to be.
BTW thanks for the inside info on the HPA Nah! There is so much to learn and so little time. (^_^)
S
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| Jan 18 @ 6:45 PM |
Advice on building my own computer
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waterfire
Posts: 2,923
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My first thought is that maybe you missed a step in the clone process! You can download FREE software from the hard drive manufacturer that will clone your drive.
Vista does accept PATA drives it would be you mother board that has no PATA drive connectors.
As afr as building a computer, it is easy if you just take small steps.
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| Feb 25 @ 11:07 AM |
Advice on building my own computer |
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RareQuestor
Posts: 1,519
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Time for another update!
Choosing a hard drive enclosure is proving to be a lot more complicated than I thought it ever could be. I have been reading the reviews at Amazon and, as one might expect, there are both pros and cons to each brand. I was able to narrow the selection somewhat by rejecting all models that are held together by glue (!) rather than screws, for example, and models without an on/off switch, but the selection is still surprisingly large. Sabrent, StarTech, CoolMax, DXNEX are just a few of the available brands. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I should choose a specific brand? It only needs to accept a 3.5" hard drive and be compatible with USB & Windows.
Thanks in advance!
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| Feb 25 @ 9:07 PM |
Advice on building my own computer
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chatillion
Posts: 183
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last month I bought a no-name 3.5" enclosure from Tiger direct.
I installed an 80 gigabyte hard drive and reformatted it in the enclosure.
It worked so well, I went back to the store for another.
I think it's >> this model <<
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